To say that university degrees are barely impressive anymore?

[PithyKhakiShaker]

It feels like degrees are everywhere now and half the time they don’t guarantee anything - not a good job, not better thinking skills, not even basic literacy sometimes. Obviously education matters but AIBU to think degrees have become so common and so varied in quality that they aren’t as impressive or meaningful as they used to be?

50 % of young people go to university.

I'd that a problem?

I agree. What it has also done is to make the institution that awarded the degree a much more important factor that it was back in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

It’s all well and good saying they’re useless but all my graduate friends are earning good salaries and have good lives. Even the ones who got a 2.2 or didn’t immediately find work. They have done well for themselves. The people from my school who didn’t go to uni have not. The gap is enormous now - they are in low paid admin roles or care work or hospitality. The exception being males who went into a trade like roofing or building. And one girl who runs a beauty salon. But otherwise those who didn’t go aren’t doing well financially.

I also taught at a very low ranking uni for a few years and even those students (I follow lots of them on LinkedIn) are doing really well. Yes there will always be the odd one who does a non-grad job but the majority of my former students are in really good jobs that they would not have got without their degrees.

You can’t just judge it on what happens in the first few years post-graduation. It’s a longer game than that.

Ah ok. Just everyone on here goes on about GCSE, a levels then uni. Never any mention of doing alternatives

It depends what the degree is in, and possibly even more importantly where it's from

GCSEs are done by everyone (in England at least) but at post-GCSE there are various options. But it’s a bit of a mouthful to say A-levels/BTEC/IB/GNVQ or whatever so most people just talk about A levels because that’s what most people do, especially those wanting to go to uni.

Think that was the case for those who graduated a while back. But now the jobs that often require degrees ( seen many admin stuff advertised as such) are the same jobs that only required A levels 25 years ago. So obviously modern degrees aren't rated as highly for some reason

The question to ask is would you want to lower the level of education across the nation?

Back in the early 70s 1/3rd of the staff at my grammar school only had teaching certificates and not degrees.

(Their qualifications were printed in the School Calendar - i.e. yearbook - if you are curious as to how I know.)

Depends.

One of my Dc has a good science degree (MSci) from a respected hard-to- get-into RG uni and went straight into a highly technical research based job in a (much needed, future proofing planet saving) producing industry. Huge amounts of theory needed as well as practical research skills and experience which was gained in a research year in industry as part of the 4 year course.

Hard to dismiss as ‘barely impressive’

Lots of people who support our cultural wealth (‘Culture is to the UK as Sun is to Spain’ is a tourism saying) , including museum and gallery curators, theatre directors and writers, have immense knowledge and rigour of intellectual thought which underpins their practice. Critics who help us understand something we have seen rather than our mate saying ‘it was great’, journalists, feature writers, so many people that support what we understand as quality of life have good degrees in subjects that are being down valued and sneered at.

Lol. Maybe most people do that as don't realize there's an alternative. The school(s) my kids went to all just pushed A levels and barely mentioned alternative options

Yes, for reasons that were spelt out very clearly to Tony Blair when he came up with this ridiculous notion.

Yes sure. Let’s just let people have a go at being doctors, teachers, architects, lawyers.

But if he scraped a pass in a "soft" subject at an ex poly would that also be " impressive". This that's the point of the post

But teaching certificates were gained after 3 years at Teacher Training College! Probably degree level, covering subject area, pedagogy, etc.

Lots of things, like nursing , teaching and drama schools are now called ‘degrees’ when it is the same education.

Sorry, how does a degree make you more qualified to teach below degree subjects? Surely you could learn those skills elsewhere? Particularly as some teachers don't teach their degree subject...

Depends what subject, where from,what level.
Some are worth a lot.
Some are not.

The bank I work for has halved the number of spaces on the graduate training scheme to allow us to double the number of degree apprenticeships we offer. I’ve had both apprentices and graduates spend 6 months on our desk, and on the whole, find the apprentices better quality. The last grad we had (2:1 LSE) failed his probation because he seemed to think he was above doing any actual work ‘because I have an LSE degree’. His written work was shockingly poor.

Our apprentices are so hungry to learn, work hard and generally get stuck in - whilst still studying for their degrees at the same time. Some of them have been incredibly impressive young people who I have no doubt, will have spectacular careers.

Mmm impressive? No, probably not. Needed to climb the career ladder? Absolutely.
I have over 10 years experience in my field (not in anything niche, but a general business requirement), but because I'm not educated to degree level I've hit the ceiling in terms of earnings and position. So I'm knocking 40 and considering a degree so I can progress.

There are people who did degrees at ex polys who have excellent jobs and are doing really well. I have taught a few who are now working as barristers for instance. Many who are solicitors. Some work for local authorities, probation service, police graduate scheme, teaching, academia. I now work for what people would term an excellent university and my students here also go on to do great things. I have worked at various places across the league tables of universities and am very much of the view that a degree gives you a big advantage in life.

It also gives you cultural capital. There are exceptions obviously. However, generally it’s a good thing if a lot of people are well educated. They often think about things more critically and are more open to ideas.

I hope you’re right. Employers are a big part of the problem when they demand any generic degree for a job then defend it by saying it proves someone is capable, reliable etc. It doesn’t and people without degrees can also be those things.

Yes but they will of course also obtain degrees. Being on degree apprenticeships and all that.

I disagree!

My DH taught for 20 years without a degree! He taught counselling diplomas up to level 4 (the level after A-level). He got a masters a few years ago and now teaches on a masters course at an internationally regarded psychotherapy training institute.

So you can have degree level skills without a degree.

And yes he did start out as a 16 year old school leaver doing an (unrelated) apprenticeship!

Are you actually capable of doing the higher jobs though without a degree?

Employers are a big part of the problem when they demand any generic degree for a job Employers need educated people, this isn't going to change. If anything the requirements will go up.