To say that university degrees are barely impressive anymore?

[PithyKhakiShaker]

It feels like degrees are everywhere now and half the time they don’t guarantee anything - not a good job, not better thinking skills, not even basic literacy sometimes. Obviously education matters but AIBU to think degrees have become so common and so varied in quality that they aren’t as impressive or meaningful as they used to be?

I forgot that, I always think that would be a move the torys made...mind you

Of course she's capable, she just maybe didn't have the support (either academically, emotionally or financially - it's none of our business unless she wants to tell us) at aged 18 to go to university for 3 or 4 years before starting work. What she needs now is a piece of paper to prove to people like you that she is capable!

A lot of my friends and family members are primary teachers, you'd be hard pressed to find one of them that didn't agree an apprenticeship in primary teaching would have been better than a traditional degree and filtered out a lot of people not meant for the profession early on.
The problem with that is the pay disparity it would no doubt create between primary and secondary teachers with specialisms would never fly with the unions.

IThe poster who I replied too was saying about her son getting a good science degree from a good uni and how it couldn't be unimpressive. I merely asked if she'd think someone with a "soft" degree from a ex poly would also be impressive. I can't see anywhere I mentioned that people with degrees from ex polys can't get good jobs? Or did I say it somewhere and forgotten it within 10 mins?

I have recruited as a manager in a wide variety of organisations and never come across this - occasionally the dates come off but the subject, institution and grade attained are always on there. Quite useless otherwise!

Sorry, what?

You'd be just as happy for your child to be taught Maths GCSE by someone who had A-level Maths as someone with degree-level Maths??

The degree would make them far better qualified and therefore much better equipped to support students, answer questions and instil interest.

This idea we can go back to the lower levels of education of the past without costs is ridiculous.

I want highly qualified teachers for my kids.

Of course it's impressive to have a degree, it takes time, dedication and brains. YABU.

in the nhs they bloody love qualifications and to get to management you need masters level 😩 roll on graduation day 🎉

I'm glad to hear this.

I work on a role that works with people from all the sectors you mention.

The people with professional qualifications tends to be amazing (e.g. probation officers).

But it's complete pot luck with graduates without professional qualifications.

Some of the experienced graduate managers I worker with in local government can barely write without plagiarising or a taking day to compose just one high level email.

Others are great of course, but a degree from a below average University seems to offer next to nothing in terms of writing skills.

YANBU. The ‘rot’ started to set in a few decades back with students not being allowed to fail (even if they couldn’t read or write English).

Now, a significant number of students use AI or pay someone else to do the work. I know someone at uni who says this is fine by the tutors.

Like everything else, degrees have become totally dumbed-down. If someone gets a first, you no longer know if they’re a genius or just ‘average’!

DS has the grades for a degree but is off to college to do an HND. I am proud of him for choosing the correct path to suit him.

Okay. Well there are BEd degrees where they do regular placements so that’s a bit like that and they have been around for a very long time. My best friend is a primary teacher and I’ve never heard her say anything of the sort - she has an undergraduate and a masters degree. Pretty sure you’d still get unsuitable people on an apprenticeship plus I’m sure the teachers would love to take on all the supervision and training responsibilities rather than letting universities deal with that.

I'm saying there are students being taught Maths GCSE by some teachers without a Maths degree.

But yes, I am okay with someone teaching some subjects without a degree. I'd be totally fine with a native French speaker with nothing more than A levels or equivalent teaching French. I'd be fine with an RE teacher without a degree in religion. Also art. And Business. And PE. I'd be fine with a Grade 8 musician teaching music, or a retired dancer teaching dance. I don't even think you can do a degree in ICT - you could in the related topic of computing, but that's its own GCSE.

There are plenty of people in the world without a degree who would make fine teachers. I'm not saying we should have unqualified people teaching, just that a degree isn't the only relevant qualification.

AND you didn't even specify age range in your original post. A reception teacher could be amazing without degree level knowledge in any subject.

I think it needs to be a first from Oxbridge or somewhere else uber prestigious. Or literally a compulsory part of a pathway like medicine or vet medicine or some kind of highly vocational or engineering/science careers.

That's a sweeping statement I know. But I do think lots of people have been sold degrees in subjects that don't really help them get a decent career, from unis with substandard teaching and facilities.

It's not good value for money and it's mostly working class kids that probably got affected most by this situation. Those who can least afford to waste ten grand a year for nothing much.

Yeah but the odd thing is that people seem to think that a school leaver who didn’t go to uni would somehow be better. That because some graduates are lacking, it would be better to hire somebody with a lower level of education. They’d be even worse on average and even less mature due to their younger age.

Also for the person who suggested it, no, uni tutors are very much not okay with students paying others to do their work or using AI. It’s an academic offence across all institutions.

If everyone has one, can you afford not to have one?

Like many others have said, there's a difference between a degree in media studies from Wrexam Uni, and an engineering degree from UCL...

That started being the case about 15 years ago. The word ‘Mickey Mouse’ is apt for most degrees which are not STEM. Demand and Supply and all that.

This is not right at all.

The point is the person with a degree has got a higher level of education than the person without - our economy requires more educated people than it used to.

As a nation we'd be knackered if we only had the most prestigious degrees.

I think there is always value in education, for education’s sake.
However, it is obviously expensive for many these days, in this country, and so students and their parents, expect it to pay off in concrete terms.
Add in the fact that many universities are “captured”, politically speaking, perfect storm.
However, the lifespan of humans is much longer now so it is in their interests to be educated for longer and also, to keep learning, for life. Plus university is also a social initiation process.
Whether you need a university to teach you information and even critical thinking - now we all have instant access to information - is debatable.

Cool would you say to the top KCs and judges in this country that their degrees are Mickey Mouse because they aren’t STEM and are in law, history, PPE etc?

You can change your choice.

I would not be ok with a fluent speaker with no qualifications teaching my child. I’d be ok with them translating my website but teaching a language, no. I couldn’t teach English language despite being a native English speaker and learning more grammar at school than my kids ever got taught.

Thankfully I think many employers these days are starting to value experience over having a degree. Of course for some professions a degree is vital, but many arts degrees don’t qualify you for anything. If I was an employer I’d much rather choose someone who had spent the last 3 years getting some life experience- like working or travelling rather than being in, what is basically just an extension of school. I think many unis these days, especially now they can charge such ridiculous fees are more interested in money and their reputation than anything else. Hence I think it’s a lot easier to get a good result in certain degrees now

Hi, I do have respect for Uni Tutors. DH is one at 2 organisations, 1 highly prestigious yet affliated to a former polytechnic.

Prior he worked in Higher Ed and was often under pressure to pass students who he didn't think should qualify so the college would receive full funding for them.

In summary, I think that work ethic stands for far more than a degree.

There are people teaching the biology component of GCSE science who do not have a biology qualification even at GCSE level - but they have degrees in chemistry or physics and will be teaching A level chemistry or physics.
Someone with a science degree (usually have A level maths) could teach GCSE maths particularly to the lower sets.
Primary teachers can have a degree in any subject followed by pgce or a B.Ed degree which will have a lot of placements the subject knowledge doesn't need to be high. Teaching the younger children requires knowledge of young children and their development rather than knowledge of history or geography