To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

If people think it's being a 'dick' to consider the impact on women's safeguarding then I think that says a lot more about them than anything else.

What also annoys me is how the word trans is a huge umbrella term. So those who actually intend to transition are lumped in with people who are claiming trans as an identity but have no intention of transitioning .

Our of all the trans people I know only one of them is actually on hormones and full time dressed as opposite sex. They feel distressed about their issues.

One of my other friends changes his mind on it all the time and only dresses as a woman sometimes . Both totally different conditions .

Yet both have this same label? So no I don't buy into the label trans either . It's not a thing as such . It's just a different gender expression . It's subjective .

YANBU to dislike the term; YABU to feel so strongly about it and wish to shout it from the rooftops.

You guys? Won? Yes, women being allowed to retain the word women because we women are women and feel that men telling us that we don’t know what woman is is ridiculous means we “won”.

@Stellaris22 is it not attention seeking for a bloke in a dress to demand he be called she/him when he hasn't even bothered to transition ? Are we expected to take this seriously ? If they are dysphoric why aren't they saving money or working extra jobs to afford hormones etc?

I don’t believe in God, I’m not going to refuse to call a reverend, Reverend or a Rabbi, Rabbi because they are asking me to use a title based on beliefs I don’t share. I don’t think humans can change sex but if someone states their pronouns, I go with it. It’s up to them.
It’s kind of silly to draw an equivalence with pronouns and safeguarding. The pronouns aren’t the problem. They aren’t the thin end of the wedge, the problem for me was always the weasel organisations dressing up misogyny as progressive rights, rapists using the trans umbrella to cover themselves and their kinks and sports cheats. The pronoun bit is hardly the point.

I disagree as I outline upthread. I'll repost if I can find it.

No, you’re being an idiot. The point is that someone telling you what their preferred pronouns are has zero impact on your freedom of speech, they are not compelling you to do anything, they are letting you know how they prefer to be referred to, and then it is entirely up to you whether you want to be an asshole or not.

A man who hasn't even transitioned who demands to use women only spaces and be called her/she, and gets offended.rather graciously conceding that they will have to use their own spaces is surely making it all about him ? Centering himself? Do you not see that @Stellaris ? They even use the language of minority groups . As if they are black or disabled or something ! Like it's even comparable.

Here

If you agree to call a man 'she' you make it that little bit harder to argue why 'she' shouldn't be allowed into women's changing rooms, sport teams, domestic violence shelters, prisons.

Prioritising gender identity over sex by using preferred pronouns can distort the reality of what's going on and can make safeguarding women more difficult.

Take the recent Sandi Peggy case. Here are two ways to describe Dr Upton's actions ...

She entered the women's changing rooms and took her clothes off in front of the women present.

Or ...

He entered the women's changing rooms and took his clothes off in front of the women present.

Both of those statements describe exactly the same act, involving the same person. But they evoke very different reactions, don't you think?

Any changes in language that make it more difficult for women to define themselves or their rights are problematic as I see it.

To be fair I think you are correct in that pronouns aren't a huge deal. It's the women's spaces that is a big deal, and thankfully the Supreme Court is seeing sense.

Not everyone will agree with the verdict, but it stands. The next issue will be something else and this will be forgotten about most likely 30 years down the line.

Thankfully it's not legal to not have to use pronouns. So everybody wins . I am pretty sure most of us women don't even give it much thought outside of mumsnet. I wouldn't engage with someone who got upset because I got their pronouns wrong I would just change the subject and move on. And they would too I'm sure.

Some languages don't differentiate between he and she or her and him/his. Turkish is one example.

The problem the OP describes is not a problem of people, but merely one of language. Move countries and it's no longer an issue.

Again, it's not only used in this context!!

It was everywhere during lockdown because people were fragile! It started when Caroline Flack killed herself! Trans people didn't invent the bloody saying!

No answer @WhenDaisiesPied ?

Why is it so bad not to use a preferred pronoun but it's ok to call someone an idiot? Why do trans people matter so much more than women? Why? It's not like being a wheelchair user. They don't need to be treated differently .

Aside from your one example name another! Why is it not used in general parlance?

Thankfully my employer is an organisation run by God-botherers who have no truck with any of this kind of nonsense.

Noone I know has had any problems referring to me with Ms/Mrs/Mz variously, nor the shortening of my name, or my stage name (burlesque!)

In treating my trans the same way and referring to them how they like, I am treating them the same way I'd want me and everyone else to be treated - with respect to their identity and their right to self- determination.

Why do TRA people bang on about how they would be suicidal if they aren't allowed in women's spaces then ???

Why?

I never said using pronouns would make ke.suicidal . I've survived torture and SA from a toddler. It takes more than that . But some people could become unwell from the stress of living a lie? I'm some religions lying is a sin. What if I were from one of those faith groups ??

I just think it's manipulative behaviour for them to be offended at me using they/them instead of he/she .

These people are abusers . They manipulate into womens spaces . I'm protecting my boundaries against narcissism like theirs

No. Using someone's preferred pronouns will not make you or anyone else "mentally unwell".

These TRAs are people who are used to getting their own way. And trampling on those with less privilege than them. Women .

I've experienced decades of abuse of all kinds. I almost died from domestic abuse that was so severe I can't walk some days and have to have help getting around .

one whiff of these people and their demands makes me want to defend myself . The fact that many of them claim they deserve a place in a woman's sport teams etc. Typical white men

What are you on about my one example!?

That's literally where the bloody hash tag comes from!

When trans people are acknowledged and referred to by their preferred pronouns -their suicide rate drops dramatically.
Everyone not living under a rock is aware of this. But you have chosen to ignore this fact in favour of semantics. People's lives, to you, are less important than your right to use words how you see fit.
Nasty is the right word.

You can’t compel the pp or determine their feelings.