To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

😂 the whole point is it's not what they call themselves. It what they want to be called when they are talked about. Why does it bother them what I'm saying when they're not even there? Moreover, who on earth bestowed the right on them to dictate what I say when they aren't there?!

I'm part of a large group of people who are 'pronoun people' - trans, non binary, gender queer etc. There's pronoun badges at a lot of events and sometimes a bit of a sharing circle at the beginning, especially at FLINTA hippy type things.

I usually say my pronouns are what/ever, or say 'I don't care', or more likely lately she/her as I feel like yeah, I wouldn't like to be called him!
There has been zero drama from anyone when I've said I'd rather not join in the circle/wear a badge. Zero drama when I've got a pronoun wrong as I just say sorry and correct.

It's really not that difficult, trust me. If you refuse to address someone how they've asked or get it wrong on purpose, you're not 'showing' them anything but the fact you're a stubborn and difficult person for no good reason. None of my friends would want to hang around you anyway. You'd just get shunned and we'd get back to our safe, happy lives among our gender diverse friends.

@StJamesInfirmary I'm quite sure, you can call them what you like. Free speech does exist, you know.

that is your experience - I know a teacher at a school where they accidentally used ‘she’ in the report of a non binary child. The child ‘s mother called the school and caused a massive stink. Properly calling in demanding the teacher was fired. All rather stressful for everyone and it was a genuine mistake!

It’s not about what people call themselves though is it? It’s that they want to dictate to everyone else how they see them/think of them/refer to them. Compelled speech.

It’s just manners to use correct pronouns.

If you refuse to address someone how they've asked or get it wrong on purpose, you're not 'showing' them anything but the fact you're a stubborn and difficult person for no good reason.

I've always used pronouns based on sex. So did everyone else until about five minutes ago. No one has ever even attempted to make an argument about why it's better for society at large to prioritise gender identity over sex and personally I can see huge problems for women in doing that.

So I'm not going to play along. Not because I'm trying to 'show' anyone anything, but because I see no good reason to deprioritise sex and it makes it harder for women to secure their sex based rights and safeguarding if we start addressing men as 'she'.

Why?

Eh? That's exactly my point. Do you understand what preferred pronouns are or have my eloquent debating skills won you round so quickly?

I've been using people's preferred language for 20+years and the LGBTQ+ community has been doing so since forever. Trans and gender queer people haven't just popped out of nowhere - maybe more visible now that there is (was) more acceptance, but it's not my friends fault that the media coverage of them has increased exponentially for the last few years. Not them who've been tweeting absolutely unremittingly, every single day and whipping up a frenzy.

I refuse to exclude.

Why what? Why is it manners?
manners
plural noun
US

/ˈmæn·ərz/
Add to word list
ways of behaving toward people, esp. waysthat are socially correct and show respectfor their comfort and their feelings:

Compared to the definition of sex this seems like a none issue. Of course there are preferred pronouns. I know one trans man, two trans women. All happy to use the facilities of toilets for their sex at birth.
Im happy to use the pronouns they prefer.

I don’t think there be a requirement to specify, but an option and I’ll respect that.

Nouns have changed a great deal recently to reflect women in the workplace. There used to be default Chairman, now Chairwoman, Chairperson and Chair are all used and I’d go with the preference of the person- once a woman who wanted Madam Chairman which I found a little strange but used.

Language does make a difference. As part of work I have to ask people about ethnic origin and if they agree to give it will give example - you might be White British or Asian or Asian British Chinese?
I’ll often get the answer “normal” meaning “White British/English/welsh/scottish”. As a person Asian British Indian it stings.

You may have been, but that doesn't mean that the majority were.

I'm not telling you what you should do. I'm explaining my position.

@StJamesInfirmary "who on earth bestowed the right on them to dictate what I say when they aren't there?"
Do you not understand what you wrote?

So we do everything everyone asks of us, without question? That's not actually true though.

@StJamesInfirmary Nobody can dictate what you call them when they aren't there. Nor when they are there.

Yeah well the majority of people don't spend an awful lot of time with trans+ people. That's why it's been so easy for politicians and certain authors to whip up fear. When you actually spend enough time around people and listen to them, you realise that people generally rub along fine.

You do you. I'm not telling you what to do either. My position is that you're acting like a stubborn, close minded person. You are welcome to carry on staying away from us. 🤷🏼

'Preferred' is not the same as 'insisting'.

Sigh…the usual gaslighting…
”what does it matter?”
”how does it hurt you?”
”what about the pain of trans people?”
”they’re just words”

Sex matters. And I don’t employ anyone, or buy services from, or have professional respect for dimwits who put pronouns on their emails or name badges.

It means they’re willing to throw girls and women under a bus for the sake of a pernicious misogynistic ideology.

Absolutely.

Because there is. Preference I mean. OP not liking it doesn’t remove its existence.

I completely agree. You’re born either male or female.

You can dick about calling yourself they/xir or whatever nonsense but nobody cares, it’s absolutely Wally behaviour. I must call a transwoman at work she because I’ll get sacked, but from what I’ve heard from the rest of the department we’re all GC, so we’re all literally humouring a mentally unwell man.

This is not about fear for me, I wish all trans people well. It's about respecting reality. Humans can't change sex and I'm not going to pretend they can - call me what you like, but that's where my position comes from.

People can choose to call themselves whatever they wish. Just as I can choose to not pander to it.

True but it's also manners to respect when someone feels uncomfortable or distressed doing so. Doesn't it go both ways? Relationships are a mutual thing, where respect needs to go both ways. Why is it always the women giving way to the minority of TRA.

I want equal respect in a relationship not to be the one doing all the giving in .

Most of the trans people I know don't insist on pronouns and respect my boundaries as I respect theirs.

The whole "poor me I'm so oppressed because I can't be in women's spaces or hear my own birth pronouns " are a small vocal minority of extremely unstable and self absorbed types. It's not reality . It's TRA propaganda just like the suicide threats (tantrums basically). IT's not a real representation of trans or queer people at all.

They give trans people a bad name .

People can prefer whatever pronouns they like
you can prefer to ignore their choices
some people might prefer to think of you as a dick.