To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

Ah fuck, where did those goal posts go?

I have a name which can be given to people of either sex, and a title which is awarded to anyone who has achieved it and isn't different if awarded to a male or female person.

Unless you had met me in person (unlikely in a professional context), you would have absolutely no way of inferring my gender unless I specify my pronouns. Which I do, because, as a woman who fought flipping hard to get to where I am, I am proud to identify myself.

Languages evolve all the time, to the utter frustration to those who struggle with change.

I really really really don't care what people want to call themselves. I don't feel overprotective over the She and Her adverbs.

Well look at it like this:

The amount of people who can't read and understand names is astonishing. My name is a girls name but remove the E at the end and it becomes a boys name - think Simone/Simon or Louise /Louis- I get called or referred to the boys version all of the fcking time and it's super annoying and might be a good enough reason to add my preferred pronouns in my signature.

100% this. Perhaps the OP should request a dictionary for their next birthday 🤣

Cross posted 🫣.

Well, quite. I have my pronouns in my signature block. We don't have to.

I get called all sorts of adjectives, mostly by my adult DC. What matters is tone, intent and context.

I agree 100% with the ruling and about time too, but afaic, people can call themselves (and dress/live) as they please.

Absolutely. And women shouldn't be allowed to have a preference over whether they're referred to as Miss, Ms, Mrs etc either. Down with personal preferences!

The point you were explicitly clear about was that prefered adjectives, adverbs, nouns and pronouns don't exist in the english language

My point was that's very obviously nonsense

You're now trying to change things. Of course pushing your prefernces on others isn't right, but that's not the same as them not existing!

Christ this is so not an issue. Mum's Mumsnet is absolutely obsessed

The concept of “preferred pronouns” exists, as well you know. You also know that no one asks for or is expected to supply their preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns.

And that’s what I’m critiquing, as well you know.

I agree. They also seem to lack the ability to understand the word 'preferred' and get irate if someone doesn't do what they prefer. I'd prefer to not wait in a queue or always have my coffee at a certain temperature and sometimes life goes in my favour but mostly it doesn't. That's the way it is.

I agree, but if someone asked me to call them 'they' or 'ze' etc as a pronoun. I'd keep quiet as know that their request to make me use words that don't make sense, trumps my knowledge of the truth. I would try to keep away from conversations with and directly about them. I'd use nodding and body language to get by.
Some of the responses on this thread about protecting feelings highlight the issue: The 'be kind', rather than 'be real' discussion continues.

So you wouldn’t mind at all if someone used they/them to refer to you? Because I’ve seen people make this argument and then they get enraged if someone says they/them because it turns out they do actually want them to say she/her.
And how does a name “belong” to you more so than pronouns? You can’t actually force someone to use your correct name but you can ask them to. If they don’t, it’s rude. Same with pronouns.

What are Miss, Ms, Mrs etc if not preferred nouns used to refer to someone?

So you wouldn’t mind being called he? Or referred to as a bloke?

I’m sick of people being so blatantly ignorant towards others and especially the transgender community, but maybe you’re the type of guy who agrees with Starmer.

I'm not the one who is mixed up, OP. I said a name is a proper noun, not a pronoun. You said preferred nouns don't exist. You agree that preferred names exist. Ergo, you are wrong.

Very rarely does language evolve at the insistence of others though. Language evolves when everyone collectively decides to start using new words, organically. If something naturally becomes assimilated into the language, that happens gradually (like the use of 'like', or bear, or long).

You never usually get people insisting that you start saying the latest teen lingo and everyone must capitulate or else they're wrong.

Sometimes you might listen to a group of people who want to change how they themselves are being referred to, e.g. 'please refer to us as 'people of colour' rather than xyz' and that's fine. However if they extended it and said 'please refer to us as people of colour and YOU must be called xyz' that would not be okay, and would not fly.

Saying 'language evolves' is not the same as 'I want you to use this language and therefore you must'.

People can all themselves whatever they like and express any preference they like. If you’re talking about enforced use of pronouns that don’t match the person’s sex, that’s a different argument.

There’s plenty of instances where certain groups ask for certain language to be used and it is then adopted into the mainstream and becomes the norm. POC is an example, various terms around disability, certain words are taboo etc. So yes it does often evolve at the insistence of others.

We had a tel call with a financial advisor last week. I asked to see her CV and she directed me to Linkedin. It said "she / her". I asked what that meant (while my DH was shaking his head and "shhhh-ing me". She couldn't answer.

Little does she know she has lost our business because of that utter stupidity. This is a woman in her late 40s.

Of course they do. People who prefer to go by the name Jim over their christened name James. Binmen who prefer to be called refuse collectors. People who have a preference over whether they are described as a person with autism or an autistic person. People who have a preference over whether they are referred to as mixed-race, bi-racial, mixed heritage etc. There are lots of situations where people may have a preference regarding the language they and others use to describe them.

Proper nouns aren’t the same as nouns. I didn’t mention proper nouns, I mentioned nouns.

I expect these tedious gotchas from TRAs, surprised to get them from someone who purports to be GC.

But again, those are all instances around referring to their own group... You never get a group of disabled people campaigning about how they want to refer to non-disabled, or POC deciding how they want to call white people.

That's why this is a bit of a weird one. I think many GC people are perfectly happy to use certain pronouns for trans people, if they've made it very clear what they want, as we're not dicks and we will be respectful as they're people who deserve to live a peaceful life.

However, it's the extension into 'and you all must also share these desires and prioritise this small thing' that causes the irritation.

(I disagree with the OP by the way despite being GC, I just think the language point comes up again and again and is not quite as set in stone).