To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

Exactly . It isn't a cause for angst. Also people mispronounced or mispell my name all the time, it's frustrating but not a cause for angst

It's time people started thinking a bit harder about the unintended consequences of their actions. Well meaning as they might be.

If you agree to call a man 'she' you make it that little bit harder to argue why 'she' shouldn't be allowed into women's changing rooms, sport teams, domestic violence shelters, prisons.

Prioritising gender identity over sex by using preferred pronouns can distort the reality of what's going on and can make safeguarding women more difficult.

Take the recent Sandi Peggy case. Here are two ways to describe Dr Upton's actions ...

She entered the women's changing rooms and took her clothes off in front of the women present.

Or ...

He entered the women's changing rooms and took his clothes off in front of the women present.

Both of those statements describe exactly the same act, involving the same person. But they evoke very different reactions, don't you think?

I don't think anyone is saying that exactly. Like I said, comparing a suicidal person who has been actually bullied is not the best comparison to a man demanding they be called she/he and women not wanting to do that. Which isn't bullying and doesn't lead to suicide.

I think what people are saying is that the TRA scene is an example of where women are told to put up with doing something that makes them feel uncomfortable just to appease the feelings of a man. It's an example of how women are taught to be people pleasers who disregard their own boundaries at the expense of a privileged man. Usually white and middle class too. I don't see poor people in the third world needing to use women's spaces.

Who said it was the same?

I simply said this isn't the origin or the sole use of be kind.

Fair enough . I suppose I was being a bit disingenuous to mention it in this context . I just get frustrated because there is an ideological falsehood that not using pronouns or allowing access to female only spaces can use a TW to become suicidal and I wanted to be sure to address that . Even though that's not the point you were making.

Indeed. There is a lot of addressing a point no one was making in this thread isn't there.

I would call this offensive clap trap that was written to be deliberately alarmist.

So I can call you 'it' then. Regardless of what you'd prefer?

I actually couldn't really give a shit about it pronouns, but the people making a massive fuss about what other people prefer AND the people expecting me to guess what their preferred pronoun is on any given day without some clear indicator can both fuck off as far as I am concerned.

Of course they exist. It means 'the pronouns by which a person prefers to be called'. The fact that nobody has to comply does not mean that the preference doesn't exist.

If someone called Samantha prefers to be called 'Sam', that's her preferred name. It doesn't stop being the name she prefers just because some people continue to call her Samantha.

I'm fully gc and will not be compelled to use non-sex-based pronouns, but your claim that they don't exist is, frankly, bizarre.

I don't give a shit as to how people identify but I refuse any form of compelled speech. I won't call a male a female no matter how dysphoric they are.

you can't seriously compare "it" with a perfectly respectful "they/them?"

They/them can never be disrespectful as a pronoun.

But that's not what people call themselves, that would be something like I or me; they are asking others to use those terms

We aren't responsible for anyone's dyshporia. We can protect our own mental health and boundaries . We can be respectful and say "I can't call you she/her, but I will use your name or they/them as.a compromise. "

I'm kind as anyone else. But I'm not an emotional support poodle for someone's offended feelings.

Many of the pronoun police would be outraged at being called them.

They've been outraged by it for years and demand to be called She!

That “Pronouns are Rohypnol” piece is an inexcusable offence to the many thousands of women who’ve had drinks spiked.

It’s a repellent piece of inflammatory anti-trans propaganda, setting the request to be referred to by a particular pronoun as equivalent to drugging a woman in order to rape her.

It originated in mumsnets own “feminism” board, written by a now-banned poster. Mn admins used to delete that link as breaking TGs but they seem to have given up against a tide of repetition from FWR regulars determined to keep sharing it.

Anyone who thinks pronoun requests are in any way adjacent to date rape drugs is seriously in need of a head wobble.

My preferred name is ScaryMonsi. It’s not my formally defined name, but it is my preferred one. It’s the one I’ll introduce myself with. It’s the one on my work email address. It’s the one in my signature, and if you want a response it’s the one you’ll need to use. I’ve not been referred to as anything else for a long time and genuinely just don’t hear the Monster version as applying to me.

That’s not very kind at all!

Sure and they can call themselves what they want. I'm not prepared to do it though. I just ignore and carry on. We all get hurt feelings and offended but as adults we learn to accept that it is part of life.

I don't care what tantrums the TRAs throw , a tantrum is a tantrum. It has no power over me at all.

But no one has still not answered why it isn’t unkind to not offer to give all your salary away to some one who is in greater need? Why are people able to say no I can’t do that and not be accused of not being kind but in the situation where you just don’t feel comfortable using preferred pronouns are people quick to point out they are not kind.

Why do you keep banging on about "protecting your own mental health" and "being depressed/suicidal in the past" as if using someones preferred pronouns would make you suicidal?

Go hang out on any of the threads about income/lifestyle anyone earning over 10k who isn't in devout poverty is lambasted for not giving all their wealth to charity because they're just lucky and everyone else isn't as fortunate!

Exactly! Why are we women having to bend over backwards for this?

I will say it again, no person in a famine stricken country right now or someone oppressed because of their skin colour or sexual orientation is wailing about not being called he/she.

its a pampered middle class disease.

@Hadalifeonce I imagine you understand perfectly well what I mean.

But they never use the phrase ‘be kind’

So?

I’m asking why that very emotive phrase is only ever used in this context! It is a very manipulative phrase particularly against women who tend to be more people pleasers than men