To shriek from the rooftops that there is No Such Thing as “preferred pronouns”?

[Ddakji]

That’s it.

They don’t exist - any more than preferred adjectives, adverbs or nouns exist.

Even people who don’t like them still seem to think they exist.

Language is a shared, collective endeavour that belongs to all. It’s not a pick’n’mix for individuals to choose and change at will. For words not to be garbage they have clear definitions - in this case she for females, he for males, they (singular) for sex unknown.

Saying my preferred pronouns are she/her, even if that doesn’t fly in the face of reality, is no different to saying my preferred species is human, my preferred adjectives are sporty and lush.

It’s nonsense. Nothing to do with being kind or they don’t affect me, or I don’t mind if others do but I won’t. It’s nonsense.

Let’s make 2025 the year we kick this nonsense into touch.

@Hastentoaddyou did use should but if you meant you would would you correct your dc if they said he for a biological male?

She and her refer to female people. By calling a man “she” I am agreeing that he is female. I don’t, so I won’t.

I do see what you are saying and I suppose people who do use ‘preferred pronouns’ need to understand that not everyone will respect their preference, I think most people would though

Because if you need to refer to them in the third person then you need to know their sex in order to use the correct pronoun.

Clear communication can be facilitated in this example by having pronouns displayed next to a person’s name.

If that “preference” is the correct word, then yes, of course - not because it’s their preference but because it’s the right word.

”in order to use the correct pronoun” - so not a preferred pronoun, but the correct one, according to their sex.

How did this work before the concept of “preferred pronouns” became a thing?

“So Sam is going to take on Task A, and he - he? Or she? Which is it, Sam?!”
“He!”
”Cheers, Sam. So as I was saying…”

It’s not that hard, and doesn’t involve a highly contentious or misguided concept.

Can’t you tell their sex by sight or by their voice?

Why do you think? So I know if they are a he or a she as I'm talking to them in front of a Zoom room full of people. If they only use the chat panel & don't have their camera on, knowing what they prefer is polite and helpful.

I wondered if this was going to be a thread saying "they're not merely a preference, they are the true pronouns of the soul". Because I've read that argument before, and therefore believed that the term "preferred pronouns" was itself considered terribly passé and phobic. I think the preferred phrase was "personal pronouns".

If people can dictate that you use the pronouns of their choosing, you still won’t know if they’re male or female simply by hearing he or she

Well TBF I don't need to know. Do you know if Sam is male or female if their camera and mic are off? I'm simply answering questions which will help them to pass their professional exams.

Realistically, though, in the middle of a big Zoom call, are you going to be quickly checking pronouns and adapting your speech on the fly? Maybe you are, but equally it would be quite normal and natural to just say "they" or the person's name. That's what I'd do if I had to refer to someone whose sex was unclear from their name - "I see a question from Sam in the chat - thanks, Sam. So, Sam is wondering about X and whether we should be doing process Y, which is what their team has been trying to do recently...". I can't imagine Sam being terribly put out or surprised that I failed to guess their sex from a Zoom message about work, and recognise it with appropriate pronouns.

However, why should Sam be referred to as they when they are perfectly able to tell me if they are a he or a she?

Well, most people would find it irrelevant to specify their sex in a context like that. Imagine you were joining a Zoom full of, say, Japanese people, who would have no idea if your name was male or female. Would you go to the bother of announcing your sex before posting a question in the chat? Assuming the topic of the call has nothing to do with your personal life? I don't think it would even occur to me. I just want my question answered. If, however, the context is more personal and I want people to get to know who I am, then why would I not show my face or use my voice?

Then again, if Sam is that bothered, they can always specify it. It doesn't follow that everyone else needs to be asked to do the same.

Nobody is insisting that they do & I don't ask. However, over the course of a 7 hour day, if Sam wants to let me know that they are a he or a she and not a they, that's absolutely fine by me.

Well, sure. If I'm running a seven-hour Zoom and someone silent with their camera off feels the need to message me to say they're a he or a she, fine.

& let me assure you, many young people do let me know how they would like to be addressed, so it obviously is important to them, especially if they come from (say) a country that I'm unfamiliar with or have a name like Sam.

Are you only allowed to respond to AIBU these days if you agree with the OP & will validate their statement?

People who take no part in the discussion are anxious about how they’re addressed?

Everyone is engaged. Some speak, some use chat panels, some have cameras on....their choice. I really don't see what the issue is if Sam let's me know if they are a he, a she or a banana!

It matters when you can see it’s a Trojan horse. A Trojan horse that allows male rapists to control their victims in court by insisting on false “preferred pronouns”.

Up until the concept of “preferred pronouns” (which are all about trying to deceive others into thinking you’re something you’re not) came along, it never occurred to anyone that the way around unisex names or names that you’re not familiar with from other cultures was to stick your pronouns everywhere. Just as it never occurred to anyone that pronouns were a matter of choice or preference.

I think I'm answering a very different Q you the one you intended. What would you like Sam to call them self?

whatever the correct pronoun for his or her sex is. Obviously. Sam can let you know that as and when it arises. Just as would have happened before this concept took hold.

I’m addressing that you don’t seem to see what the issue is. If you concur with “preferred pronouns” in one area, you have to concur with them in all.

I suppose, to be fair, there are probably more cases nowadays where people from different countries are talking online - maybe even using usernames. This creates a new scenario where you can be talking to someone with no clue to their sex (I suppose this could have happened pre-internet, in public written correspondence, and people would generally have addressed this by giving their titles). However, that's obviously not why preferred pronouns have been pushed everywhere in recent years. Otherwise people on online forums would be adding she/her to their usernames instead of merrily continuing the conversation and correcting any misapprehension about their sex as and when it arises.

Exactly this. People have managed to deal with sometimes not knowing the sex of a colleague for decades (even after titles were dropped from correspondence). That’s not why this concept has crept in, and we all know it.

So their preferred pronoun then 🙂