To be really worried about Reform?

[FiveHorse]

Just that really. They’re predicted to gain the most from the upcoming elections, if this carries on could we see a reform government at the next general elections? Or is it press scaremongering as usual?

So out of touch with the working class man and woman, it's untrue. It's always easy to throw lazy labels around rather than understand why people feel the way they do.

Well, lefties got off on the excessive Tory bashing threads didn't they?

Hardly excessive, the entire country handed the Tory party its P45 last year. I don’t know why you think right leaning views shouldn’t be questioned.

The difference is that Reform voters don't start pearl clutching threads about being worried at other people's concerns

You obviously haven't seen the Labour bashing threads before and after the GE. Plenty of Reform supporters on those saying how worried they were/ are about Labour.

What arrogance and intolerance and no matter how much you dislike it, the party -not a business, a party - is going nowhere

If Reform in its current iteration still exists in five year's time I will be surprised.

Here's why I think that.

England is a conservative (note small c) country. It doesn't vote for anything other than left of centre, centre or right of centre in general elections.

Reform's voter base skews older. I know two Reform voters. Both in their 70s. Quite frankly Reform's main voter base will start to die off.

There are already splits in Reform's support. Many think Farage should be supporting Yaxley-Lennon, resent him for not doing so, and want Lowe as leader.

*I concentrate on England as Scotland does not have much time for Reform. Wales may in the 2O26 Senedd elections, but how Wales votes does not influence GE results, much, sadly.

As much as I strongly oppose reform and what they stand for - I agree that slating the people that vote for them is not good at all and also it is a democracy and whislt reform are espousing a lot of very, IMO, dangerous views, they are a legal entity. We will not get anywhere by denigrating those with differing views to ours - we need to try to always speak with empathy, respect and understanding.

I am not going to speak with understanding and empathy to people who want to have apartheid for immigrants, as one Reform supporter on here espoused.

Reform is dangerous, the fact that people are currently supporting it in big numbers is dangerous, as we saw with Farage's behaviour and the resulting riots last August.

Everyone is entitled to their views, but that doesn't mean we should handle them with kid gloves. We need to be able to call a spade a spade and a racist a racist, not pander to them.

Eta: if you read through this thread, people have tried to engage with Reform supporters and ask which policies attract them and why. All the replies are immigration, immigration, immigration.

Reform is a racist party. It's supporters are racist. Me saying that isn't going to drive anyone who is not a racist to vote for them.

I share your views on Reform. I do worry that if we don’t listen to why people vote reform tho, we risk pushing people further to the right / into that area. As much as I do not have a tolerance for any kind of prejudice - and as a reminder all hate speech is a crime - my family lived experience of racism, being treated as 2nd class citizens (no Irish, no blacks, no dogs…) my feeling is we have to listen to those with views different to ours to have any chance of finding a way to a more peaceful, acceptin society, whilst calling out hate crimes, calling out predjudices and being allies to our communities impacted. And why are people now so open to anti immigration views? Is it because their lives are being impacted by economic crisis, they struggle to find affordable housing, they can’t find decent, secure work, they feel their lives are in crisis? Not everyone who may find themselves in this position is attracted to the rhetoric that it’s “others” that are the issue. The word immigration needs to be analyzed - as when break that down, it doesn’t make any sense anyway - immigrants are legal UK citizens the same as any other UK citizen. They can be wealthy, middle class, working class - just like any non immigrants. So what are we saying when we say immigration is an issue? Who are we actually talking about? We are talking about UK citizens. And yes, when strip it back, sometimes there is racism underneath - pure unbridled fear and hatred of “other”. But even if this is the case - to have any chance of change we have to discuss and listen to those with different views. A way to short circuit is also to share - okay, reform get in, they stop all immigration in ways you want. What is the change then that you want to see in your life as a result of this? Better housing, jobs, wages, improved access to NHS, better education etc. that just won’t happen as a result of the immigration control. All
those things need massive amount of investment and immigration isn’t a cost to the economy. We need money to be better distributed - starting with a wealth tax etc

How can you have a discussion with people who have nothing to say beyond 'stop immigration' and then can't explain how Reform is going to do this.

Try asking them about Reform's policies, education, welfare, women for example, you get silence.

I am all for listening but they are not saying much

Immigration as a political topic is normal. Maybe that’s why politics is going as it is, the language required to talk about policies and border control is too difficult and end up in accusations.

Would you call me a racist @PandoraSocks as I want the small boat crossings to stop.
From 27th to 29th April this year, so just 3 days another 1152 migrants have arrived here by small boat.

Where are these people going to be housed whilst their claims are verified. Starmer wants landlords to now house them instead of hoteliers as that was too expensive, but we all know there's a housing shortage. So where are these houses and flats going to miraculously appear from?

Housing shortage is down to 14 years of a Tory government not refugees crossing the channel.

Immigrants don't get council houses

You can call people who want reduced immigration racists all you like. All it does is reflect your own laziness in debate.

You will be happy to know then that net migration is already coming down.

my parents and all their friends were disappointed to have their winter fuel allowance taken away but those boomers don’t ‘need’ it… it should be means tested though so those with poor pension get it.
i don’t think he’s gone after the disabled per se. Making sure the benefits is for those who really need it is fair. Unfortunately there are some who claim who don’t need it.
However I agree there’s bigger things to go after, big companies that don’t pay tax, financial elite, offshore property companies to pay more tax .
if I was PM I’d try to raise money through a drive for on the spot fines for antisocial behaviour, cannabis smoking in street, feet on seats on public transport, unnecessary car horn beeping, noise disturbance. like parking tickets.😄

Reform are not going to stop the boats with their current idea. So where are they going to house refugees?

Where would you house them if not in hotels or private rentals?

Rosie, you sound like a really nice person. After the Brexit vote I too was of the view that maybe a lesson should be learned, we should listen to the concerns of people who support Farage etc. But as time has gone on I realised that the people who support Farage mostly just hate immigrants and Muslims, so my attitude has hardened.

I think tents were suggested recently by a Reform supporter.

Where have I said people who want reduced immigration racists? There is a difference between that and blaming all the UKs ills on immigration.

Yes, and a form of apartheid.

No I wouldn't call you a racist. No one in their right mind wants to see people crossing over in small boats. The difference is I and hopefully you don't blame all the UK's ills on those people or demonise them.

We just have to keep going and listen ❤️

I haven't said they get Council houses. But there's a shortage of houses in the private sector. So where are these houses going to appear from?

And no I don't think tents are the answer.

Where are you going to house them? Just answer that question.

Labour has a housing plan, very ambitious and difficult to fullfill and it won't be a quick solution.

What is Reform's housing policy?

Numbers are going up under Labour and if you have over a thousand a week crossing, each one will need accommodation. Nearly every country struggles with this and tents whilst out of place here are more usual in other countries. We spend more pp than other G7 countries however.

I don’t think any party will want tent cities as an approach. It’s more likely they’d want reduction in crossings.

As for net migration, it will reduce due to visa changes under last gov, some may think that’s good but it leaves crossings as an issue to resolve.

I actually dont think it's fair to expect the average member of the public to have the solutions to issues. It's the job of the party to suggest them and other parties to question or debunk them if their suggestions aren't workable. Then we weigh up which we think sounds most likely /better in the debate.

Government is complex, most if us have no idea on national treaties, trade, even tax amounts or what's possible. I have a special interest in education but beyond that, I can't suggest workable solutions for nhs, emrvironment, housing, transport..I just know I want them..

I don't like reforms policies, I think they are unworkable. But I still need to listen that immigration is a huge issue for people and make sure the party I support has that on thier radar, has more workable solutions and is engaging in the debate etc.