To be really worried about Reform?

[FiveHorse]

Just that really. They’re predicted to gain the most from the upcoming elections, if this carries on could we see a reform government at the next general elections? Or is it press scaremongering as usual?

Any notion of even curtailing immigration, any attempt to even start a neutral discussion on the topic has been for years systematically met by massive outcry, emotional blackmail, jumping straight at the jugular with accusations of racism, fascism, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Sorry, but this is absolute rubbish and a revisionist view of history.

The Tories were in power from 2010 to 2024. From 2015 onwards, they stood on an anti-migration platform and had the majority in Parliament to do whatever they pleased about it. But they didn’t, because having migration as a deflection and division topic was far more valuable than actually addressing the issue.

I’ve not met a single person on the left who advocates for fully open borders or unlimited migration, nor anyone who suggests every single migrant is a good person. What we’ve always opposed is the demonisation of migrants as a group and the ensuing racism and bigotry that oozes from it.

And please don’t pretend that the discussion isn’t rooted in racism and bigotry. Not once have I heard anyone complaining about the number of white and/or Christian migrants from Australia, America, or Europe. It’s always... always... about Muslims and brown people.

I mean, the very fact that the “illegal migration” issue is centred on boat people and not on visa overstayers, who actually make up the majority of illegal migrants, should tell you everything you need to know about how the right tries to frame the discourse to stir division.

Where did I say that?
Are you happy with this Labour government? Most aren't.

So in 9 months they have deported 24,000 migrants but in the first 4 months of this year 10,000 have crossed in small boats.

They need to stop the boats which is what they promised in their manifesto. "Smash the gangs" was their slogan.

Yep.
The 24000 deported figure was also discredited by BBC verify iirc.

You don't think a Reform government would screw the economy even more?

Can you explain how they are planning to fund their pledges?

Many people are fed up with labour & the tories. Many people feel let down by the state of public services & the cost of living particularly housing costs. It is understandable to be frustrated, angry & upset by the current state of society. However, if you are thinking about voting reform ask yourself are they really the answer? Are they really the people you want to stand with? Does Nigel Farage really care about you and your community? Do they have a positive and detailed plan for improving things?
People are worried about reform, because many of the party leaders & activists hold very unpleasant opinions. They aim to be divisive and to blame all societies ills on immigrants. Many within the party hold extreme rightwing views. Please read the link below to see what they have said and done. Activists and the party hierachy are on record saying awful things. Are these people you want to stand with?

There will be other choices on the ballot paper beyond labour, the tories & reform. Please consider the other options if you are fed up with the current goverment.

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/09/24/reform-uk-are-far-right-heres-why/

Being unhappy with the labour goverment does not have to equal supporting reform. There are other options.

@DuncinToffee

Maybe you can look at the Reform website and look at their policies and where the money will come from.

it wasn't debunked. It was clarified. The BBC distinguished between enforced and voluntary returns.

I know you aren't happy with this Labour government. I don't agree with everything this government has done but I think they are still the best option.

Reform would be a disaster. I guess you would be ok with a Reform government as you haven't said otherwise.

Labour did not hence the need for verification.

I don’t understand why nobody ever votes for liberals? We had conservative and labour but apparently never liberals.
Why they don’t get chance?
i always vote for them as I like their manifest, but seems nobody else does!

I have, their funding is not very clear. Maybe you can tell me more?

They were making great gains until the coalition and the uni fee thing set them back hugely. It's taking time to rebuild from that.

(I also think the media prioritise more controversial parties)

Well yes, returning people doesn't stop others coming.

If you want to reduce the number of people crossing the channel, put an asylum processing centre in France. It won't stop all of the crossings, but people with genuine claims will be safer and won't need to pay smuggling gangs and risk their lives.

The last government had some pretty harsh asylum ideas (Rwanda, I'm looking at you) and they had no luck stopping crossings and indeed, returned fewer people), so this is not a Labour creation.

I was hoping Labour would do it. It is what is says on the tin in theory.

And when I say truly toxic and emotional, I wholeheartedly mean the Left, it is indeed one of their main tools. Emotional blackmail and tantrums. Calling anyone disagreeing with them "Reform" as an excuse to stop thinking and label ppl being an example of it all over this thread.

The day a progressive leftie is ready to say "I may disagree with you profoundly and it is causing me upset, but I am going to set my emotions aside, adopt a neutral and open perspective to talk to you, maybe hear a few hard truths in the hope you can hear a few from my side too, but also hear your viewpoint and see if we can build a consensus and grow together because we are from the same community and we need to make it work and at the very least we need to respect each other", that day, I am leftie again.

Are you saying that you don't want the boats to stop. You're quite happy for criminal gangs to make huge amounts of money from human trafficking? Does it not bother you that some of these migrants possibly have criminal records and have likely been refused asylum in other EU countries?

I'm no fan of Reform but I don't think the constant narrative of 'if you don't vote like me you are thick/racist/gullible/uneducated - take your pick of insults' is going to convince anyone who is desperately looking for someone who will represent their interests better than the current Labour government or the Tories, not to give them a try.

" Does Nigel Farage really care about you and your community?" Does Keir Starmer? Even if you don't have a public sector job, particularly a well-paid one with a solid, unfunded pension, that the tax payer must pay for?

Labour’s policies are their creation and numbers are going up.

Well labour didn't carry out the enforced returns either. The security companies do. It's about the number returned under a Labour government. The figures haven't been changed since Labour came to power, they were reported in the same way when the Tories were in charge, so you're still comparing like for like when you talk about both enforced and voluntary returns.

Look at Nigel Farage's views about women. If you are thinking of voting reform is this a man & a party you want to stand with?

Disagree with all bar the parental allowance. I actually think that’s an interesting idea and it would appeal to me, depending on how much and how long for.

Labour’s headline quote was wrong hence the need for verification.

BBC Verify confirmed it was misleading.

Its a good sound bite for Labour on SM but that’s about it.

Does it not bother you that some of these migrants possibly have criminal records and have likely been refused asylum in other EU countries?

So, why the countries who refused their asylum claims not return them to their native countries?

Voting Reform is not going to stop the boats.