To discuss the societal impacts of older parents?

[Kindersurprising]

I feel like this is a really under-discussed area, particularly as it’s now really extremely common (particularly in middle class circles) to have a first baby after 30 and in many cases 35+.

I feel like in 20 years we are going to see quite a big impact, in adults having fewer (if any) siblings due to parental age, caring for elderly parents while having small children themselves, a lack of grandparent support and I guess a smaller family circle much earlier on. I only realised today that it will be vanishingly rare for kids to have great grandparents soon - my DC have only one, through me.

The positives are often cited as more money, and more life experience.

I was 30 when DC2 was born, so somewhere in the middle and not a young parent as such. I often wonder what it would be like to have had them earlier.

How do you think this will play out in the next 20-50 years?

I think it's from 2025 that the UK population starts to shrink. We absolutely should be having a conversation about an ageing population but focusing on a small minority that have dc in their 40s is redundant.

Realistically the ship has sailed re increasing birth rates, no country has managed to reverse the trend.

So we need immigration and more of the west will be competing for immigrants plus those younger developing countries will become more powerful & less will want to
leave. Yet we may have Reform in power soon.
Capitalist economies rely on growth so we could change our entire economic system but is that realistic?

In earlier times this would not have been an outlandish suggestion it is a corner stone of the judeochristrian (sp?) religious teachings. For God for the good of humankind not just for personal self actualisation ? yes pre the enlightenment this was a very mainstream belief.

I'm very glad that times have changed and women have choices now. Funny how it's always women that have to sacrifice things and have their choices taken away for the 'greater good'.

Agree. I had one child and decided if we hadn't had a 2nd by 30, I wasn't having more. I had no desire to be an older parent and didn't want to be bringing up a child at the age other people in my family were grandparents.

Probably because every time a poster who was/is a teen parent says anything on here they get told they're a waste of space and a failure and should say thank you to other posters for paying taxes because everyone assumes they're unemployed and single mums.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/olympic-britain/population/have-kids-settle-down/

This has stats on average age of first time mothers in the UK embedded in it.
It was 26 in 1938 vs 28 in 2008. Lowest it got was 23-24 in late 60s. In 2022 from the sources I can see it was 29-30 so average age has gone up but not that dramatically. Some of this will be less women having children as teens and some will be more having their first child later in life.

Anyway it’s entirely possible that some posting on here were young in 70s when 25 was about the average age of a first time mum. It’s currently about 29-30 so I’m really not sure why those 5 years would make such a massive societal difference

It’s currently about 29-30 so I’m really not sure why those 5 years would make such a massive societal difference

They won't which is why the OP doesn't make sense & presumably why some are seeing it as just an excuse to criticise older mothers.

my daughter helped at a local swimming group for disabled children. All but 2 (from same family who were physically disabled as result of car accident) had autism. All but 2 (same two) had older fathers. It was striking.

Exactly some posters on here love assuming all teen mum's are unemployed and single mums and telling them they're a waste of space and posters tax money but conveniently ignore how their life choices mean taxes will be higher

Thanks @TaupeMember - you’ve absolutely nailed it there, I was struggling for the right word, but dense is definitely the one.

@Lionsniffer I'm not sure what point you are making taxes will be higher because our demographics have changed. There aren't enough young people at the bottom to
support the top.

The vast majority don't pay enough tax to fund themselves later in later life, contrary to what so many think & there is no "pot".

The state pension is 11k a year, 20 years of that is 220k . So you would need to earn 50k for more than 20 yrs just to pay that in tax, obviously the majority don't earn this. Then add in NHS, education costs etc. This is to be expected and not an issue when you have more people at the bottom but it's an issue when you don't.

The changing demographic shape

I think you might be mixing up correlation and causation. There is shown to be a slight increase in neurodivergence with older parents (especially older fathers), there is also a correlation between neurodivergence and those born to poorer parents. It doesn’t mean that being older causes this any more than being poor causes this.

Yes my Aunt died less than a year after her mother. My GM didn’t expect anyone to look after her but she was confused etc and like many elderly people in those years between independence and going into care it was my elderly father who had to pick up the slack. He didn’t mind but I was making the point that those with v young parents can end up being old carers which isn’t great all round.

I was an older Mum - not choice but circumstances - I’m so glad that my DC won’t be in their 60s and 70s never having inherited anything and looking after elderly parents.

@Atarin how so? there is an increased risk as you say....I'm not arguing this isn't a reason to not have dc older or that being poor doesn't also cause issues? I just said these are points that have valid discussion. Blaming older parents for the switch in demographics isn't valid.

Society has already changed.

Having children now, and growing older now, there is less and less of a state safety net, spread further each passing year.

We could blame older mothers, that’s an easy target, but is it right to have a discussion about child rearing without including the fathers and their contributions or not? Younger men aren’t in positions to have families, there is less pride in supporting your household more “golddigger” cries, people who get into partnerships and it’s all about “protecting you assets” (which I agree with), rather than than building a life together.

Adult social care is collapsing so if you need state help before you are old, for you or maybe your children, it’s just not there.

Which makes having children more of a personal risk, if your child, for whatever reason, will need supported living to live independently parents will increasingly have to be able to financially support that, if you can find it. They won’t be on hand to look after older relatives as well and if they need help as they age they will need to fund that.

We have to pay for university education now, we need houses that might have to accommodate adult children returning in case of their housing collapsing.

But the genie is out the bottle, society is selfish, there is no pride or desire to look after others for free, even if you want to most households need two or more wage packets. No one wants their house price to fall, keeping housing as the big expense, that you need, it’s essential. Which makes everyone paraniod about not losing their share of their input.

And round and round we spiral down.

We had our child in our early 30s, just two, with someone who we desired to grow old with. We worked out we could afford two, plus ourselves, and did contemplate that our genetic material was getting older. We didn’t have a third child, I wanted 4, because of money and concern if another baby would have a disability because that would change the family for everyone. So we did think about it, and we continue to make arrangements for the possible financial responsibilities we might need for ourselves and our children for the future.

So as society changes, and as we are all going to have to self fund more and more for ourselves and our children, it’s no great surprise the birth rate is falling and parents are having their first child older.

Who here is suggesting to their children (particular male children) to work towards a career in NMW care work? Not many I bet. Yet we all expect it will be there for us, just provided by someone else’s child.

Now women won’t, can’t, provide the masses of unpaid care in society they used to it’s effectively collapsed, because the males haven’t jumped up to help fill the gaps have they?

Increasingly if you have requirements for your family old, young, in between, you are on your own. It’s not going to improve. So we all are planning our families and finances with this in mind.

And if you add in microplastics which are everywhere now in all our brains and were found in 14 out of 16 ovary fluid something recently, so part of growing embryos I think we can say things are definitely going to change.

But hey who wants to give up their plastic things so microplastics don’t end up in brains and babies? Absolutely no one. And being rich doesn’t help this time they are everywhere, in soil, water, air.

The whole planet, world leaders, with brains full of microplastics!

It will be a bumpy ride!

Having a baby after 30 is the least of our concerns.

These chaotic mothers start young though when they are not able to look after themselves or children and continue to have children despite still not being able to look after themselves. This isn’t an issue of women holding off having children to finish education and establish a career

But they have a higher chance of burying their parents young which isn’t great either.

Swings and roundabouts

I didn’t even know my grandparents on my dad’s side.

Statistically teen mothers are much more likely to be on benefits and much much less likely to be net contributors to society (in a tax sense). Older mothers are the opposite. People having kids they can’t look after are costing us a fortune in tax. These tend overwhelmingly to be far more likely to be teen and young mothers than older mothers

So do poorer people who tend to have lower life expectancies. Quite significantly lower in many communities

Sorry my point was it's tiring seeing posters who assume all teen mum's are unemployed and single mums and accuse teen mum's of being a waste of "their" tax money.
When like you say their choices to wait till they're 40 and have one child is also going to make taxes higher.

People having kids they can’t look after are costing us a fortune in tax.

Is it though? there aren't that many dc being born for one.

@Lionsniffer you are confused. Having 1 dc will increase taxes regardless if you have them at 20 or 30 or 40. But why blame younger people in the first place for making choices to have fewer or no dc for higher taxes?