Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor - you have blood on your hands

[Muffinmam]

Am I being unreasonable to say that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor - the Duke of York and member of the Royal Family has blood on his hands following the tragic suicide of Virginia Giuffre?

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has faced zero consequences for his role in Virginia Giuffre‘s sexual abuse and trafficking because he’s rich and his powerful mummy paid off the victim and the British police failed to pursue charges against him. To be clear, while the age of consent in the UK is 17 years old this does not apply to trafficking victims and Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has never faced criminal charges.

He probably thinks he’s got away with it now she’s gone.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14649791/Virginia-Giuffre-suicide-perth-mansion.html

Why didn't security prevent him? A (then) suspected sexual abuser of children? Surely security should have stepped in?

I should have used inverted commas, apologies. I know he isn't a 'victim' in the way the girls were but I think Epstein exerted a lot of influence over the big fool too. He'll have lapped up all the attention.

I can't remember exactly but was it when they were having sex that she said he was sweating profusely or just before in the nightclub? If he could prove his claim of being physically unable to do so that would only have helped his case, no?

I thought it was in the nightclub?

Proving he didn't sweat wasn't going to prove he didn't have sex with her.

She would probably have said she was mistaken as she did with Dershowitz.

Did VG file a lawsuit against any other men who had sex with her?

Well maybe they tried to step in & PA ignored/overruled them. Just speculating of course....but I find it very hard indeed to believe that they wouldn't have known.

I don't accept the suggestion that PA was just foolish and naive. This is a highly privileged man who had had access to the best education that (our) money could buy.

Of course Ghislaine Maxwell was at that party. Oh and Harvey Weinstein was there too. 3 perverted sexual abusers at Windsor Castle attending a party at which other family members were present, very much part of the RF fold.

I can't remember the details but she did accuse Alan Dershowitz and then there was something about him suing her and then she had to withdraw her allegations. Something like that. I suppose I should google it.

She didn't go after any of the bigger players who've been named in connection with Epstein - just the stupid buffoon of a royal, and it makes me wonder why.

I've thought about that, and my conclusions are:

That suing Andrew would make the most noise, nationally and internationally. Rich businessmen, politicians - what do you expect? But a Royal...

That because he's royal and who his mother is, he was the one most likely to pay up to make it go away. She'd been told much earlier that Epstein had the police in his pocket, some of the men (if the stories are true) were very high profile politicians. They too would have the money and influence to fight it and make sure the result went their way. Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky anyone?

@Futurehappiness Well maybe they tried to step in & PA ignored/overruled them. Just speculating of course....but I find it very hard indeed to believe that they wouldn't have known.

This sounds plausible as there have been many reports of him being bombastic towards staff over the years.

Good for you mainecoon.. I think we all know who the rude one is. You are continually saying Bollocks and Bullshit to anyone who has a different point of view from you. And yet I'm rude?! Don't make me laugh!
I suggest you stop replying to Every Single Post of mine with your abrasive rudeness.

Did you make a serious allegation against Martin Kemp?

Was Martin Kemp friends with and doing business with a notoriously well known human sex trafficker?

Were you in another country solely at the behest of that trafficker when you met M.K and said photo was taken?

Was M.K caught lying in an interview about the length of time he remained in contact with your Sex trafficker? Caught lying about being in a Pizza eatery at the time of the alleged meeting?

Sure the picture in itself proves nothing, very strictly speaking. But the context adds a lot of weight to the balance of probabilities that what was alleged happened.

Epstein was running a bribery cartel and if Andrew is an idiot, I don't believe Ghislaine Maxwell is as stupid. Especially with who her father was and her background. Yet she is openly in the backdrop of the photo, smiling in a very pleased manner. Why would she allow such a photo to be taken? One with her in it, and one with no other than Prince Andrew, her supposed friend with a lot to lose, with his arms around Virginia? I assume it was the done thing to have video footage or camera evidence of all high profile sexual liaisons with the women and whilst Epstein's mansions were kitted out with surveillance paraphernalia, the flat they were in at the time wasn't. So a picture had to suffice and that was the best opportune moment, when he's high on the thought of soon getting the goods and is being ridiculously incautious. Ghislaine is in the background as authentication.

So if you or anyone here, had come with a photo of any celebrity and the details were the same as in this case I would weigh it up and fall down on the side of believing you until I see persuasive counter details of the same strength and magnitude.

After all, there was never any possibility of Andrew getting into a court room, and whilst that may protect one in the letter of things because, after all 'you cannot be found guilty in law, if no law is set to bear' it leaves him without the protection of exoneration from doubt. It leaves him open to speculation and being judged in the court of public opinion. That is the open court arena he has deliberately chosen. People with reason will do a probability ratio, speculate and arrive at conclusions that tie in with the known facts. How likely is it that PA would have refused sex with a young attractive girl put under his nose to entrap him by a sex trafficker that he was repeatedly exposing himself to? How likely is it that the photo is actually, in fact doctored?

Having endured, like so many women, inappropriate sexual encounters with men without a tenth of the power and entitlement of PA and taking into account the background context. I believe he did it.

Yes. And Maxwell was sat on a throne in Buckingham palace and Epstein and her holidayed at Balmoral and took photos of themselves in QE2's private bothy. And they had been to Sandringham. They were all over royal properties with the wider family continually

@GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples

Excellent post. I agree with all you say. I think we are forgetting how vulnerable a 17 year old can be without parental support and having lived on the streets and been sexually abused.

The trouble with name-dropping Harvey Weinstein is that Weinstein was also a good friend to the Obamas and their eldest daughter worked as an intern for him. Weinstein was very much part of the Obama fold as well.

I don't see how HW's links to the Obamas are relevant to the situation here, of 3 sex offenders welcomed within the Royal Fold and invited to Royal residences.

But on the subject of the Obamas: what they did do as soon HW's behaviour came to light, was publicly denounce HW and show solidarity with his victims. Unlike Andrew who continued to maintain his friendship with Epstein after his conviction.

I am so sorry for what you have been through. It is very sad that on this thread you have felt the need to describe your own horrific experiences to illustrate to certain posters just how much the odds are against victims getting justice.

That's the only conclusion I can come to, but surely there must have been others she could have pursued, less wealthy and powerful perhaps than the obvious ones?

Everyone can see what's really going on here. I will respond to posts as I wish within the guidelines. I haven't said anything personal to you the way you have to me!!

He’s not a pedophile. Pedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children.

Assuming the allegations are true, then he did her damage for sure, but there isn’t one reason a person takes their own life and she had considerably more problems than him.

He should be retired from all public royal events. Whether they invite him for Christmas or not is up to them I’d say.

Haven’t RTFT, but there’s rarely one simple reason why a particular person kills themselves. I’m sure the trauma from Epstein and his associates was a large factor, but I don’t think it’s accurate to point at one person and say, “This is your fault, you drove her to it.”

Virginia also has severe kidney problems and had recently left an abusive long-term marriage. She was molested by a family friend when she was a child and ran away to live in the streets when she was a teenager, where she was abused by a different sex trafficker (not Epstein). Unfortunately, I think she felt as though her lifelong misery would never end as long as she was alive. Rest in peace.

I don't see what your point is. Having your arm around a stranger is no proof of anything. You wasted a lot of time writing those parallels though!

AFAIK he is. I guess they made an exception for the Coronation, as his brother was being crowned. The Easter service wasn't a public royal event.

Andrew never previously showed any interest in very young women. His serious partners have been the same age or slightly older. (Sarah Ferguson and Koo Stark)

Andrew didn’t sex traffic her. It was Maxwell and Epstein who trafficked her to various rich old men. Andrew didn’t know she was trafficked, he never paid her or anyone any money. She was of the age of consent as well. Maxwell and Giuffre even testified that Andrew didn’t know Epstein was paying for the sex on the side as he was so entitled and stupid he just assumed young women would want to bang a Prince because royalty has an allure to it like all those women who are choosing to be baby mamas to Elon Musk (who is older than Andrew was).

There isn’t any law on the books to prosecute a John who

• didn’t pay for sex, so doesn’t know prostitution is a factor
• didn’t know the woman had been trafficked and
• she wasn’t underage

Yes he should have been a bit smarter and not trusted Epstein and Maxwell, and I think he has suffered the full social and family consequences of that.

But he’s not responsible for Guiffre’s suicide.

Yes, there are many parallels. Thanks!

Many women experience the parallel situation of sexual exploitation in real life and are accused of being liars by society and other women experiencing internalised misogyny, despite whatever evidence they bring. Especially in the UK.

Long live the male self-entitlement! Don't we just love to support it? The women exploited can go kill themselves, but they shouldn't expect that that will persuade anyone differently.

Next victim please!
Repeat.

Clearly relevant if you want to expand the link beyond Andrew to the wider 'Royal Fold'. You linked Harvey Weinstein to Princess Beatrice’s 18th birthday party (apparently 400 guests were invited) - the Obamas trusted Weinstein with their 18 year old daughter.