To think ugly men are usually vile

[SordidSplendour]

Speaking as a very "mid" woman looks wise. I've given all sorts of men chances over the years, moreso ugly men as in my younger years I assumed they'd be funnier, more accepting, kinder etc.
Never the case. The most rotten foul, misogynist men have been the ugliest!
Married and had DC with a normal (v attractive to me man!) but am seeing it all again now via DDs.
Am I alone?

Went there once & swore never again. Being on the receiving end of women's kindness his whole life had given him a huge sense of male entitlement.

Never noticed this. I've known plenty of ugly men (although I feel horrible saying this) who were nice people. I can't actually think of any "vile" ugly men I've known.

I think there are a lot of shit men out there, I don’t think how attractive a man is has much bearing on it. It’s more to do with how they’ve been brought up, who they mix with, their experiences and ultimately who they choose to be.

Many years ago my first husband used to bang on about short men.

He really disliked them because his theory was they were bombastic and full of themselves to compensate for their lack of height.

I must add my first husband wasn't known for his rationality.

Interestingly I've moved to an area where the local people in general are on the smaller than average size and there are lots of short men. And actually they just seem to display the normal range of personalities - some good, some bad, and a lot in between.

Insecure people lash out and say and do horrible things. It's the insecurity to be wary of, not subjective looks.

Try reading a male dominated forum.

This is rainbows and kittens compared to them.

Holding women to higher standards than men is misogyny.

And their core personality/character - because I believe there's quite a bit of nature ax well as nurture.

Where is anyone saying they hold women to higher standards?

I think you and others are forming big generalisations/absolutes on relatively tiny cross sections.

And I doubt every conventionally unattractive man you've met was horrible, and every conventionally attractive man you've met a nice person. That would be impossible in my experience.

It would be also impossible ime for you to have met only kind, nice, interesting conventionally unattractive women. Because I've met plenty of conventionally unattractive women who were not interesting or nice, and some pretty/beautiful women who were very kind, very smart and very interesting. The head of a public development company in my hometown is the best public speaker, best rounded, and one of the most sincere and kind people I've ever met ...she's also still (in her 50s or even 60s) beautiful, and must have been (conventionally) even more so when younger.

People are all different, regardless of looks.

The clue is when the forum and women are criticised due to women saying some things that would be extremely mild compared to what men say on male dominated forums.

There will be women whose views you consider shallow, unfair, unpleasant, or generalisations. That's not a poor reflection of this forum or women; it's reality.

The same (and worse in my experience) exists on male forums.

Expecting it not to exist on female forums - or saying it's a terrible reflection of the forum or women ... . is holding women to higher standards.

It's rather obvious.

The fact that men do XYZ more than women do XYZ doesn’t mean we can’t pull women up on their behaviour 🤷‍♀️

Interestingly I've moved to an area where the local people in general are on the smaller than average size

Hobbiton??

The fact that you think you have the right to "pull women up on their behaviour" says a lot.

Those are their views. People will always have different views. You can disagree and say why you disagree.

You don't have the right to malign the entire forum and women, like that poster was doing.

Op, in my experience, for some men - not being conventionally attractive, seems to contribute to bitterness, resentment, malevolence, "ishoos" etc.
For others, it does not.

Just like some conventionally attractive men are really not nice people (Armie Hammer for example), while some are, and plenty of people are somewhere in the middle.

(Being good looking also does not preclude being bonkers (Tom cruise for example, considered good looking when younger) or a sociopath or psychopath; serial killer Richard Ramirez was male model-y looking).

Anyway, to riterate, I think you're forming generalisations on relatively tiny numbers of examples.

*reiterate

Of course I have the right to be pull people up - just as you have the right to pull me up - as you’re currently doing!

That doesn’t mean people have to agree with me, of course.

But women shouldn’t be immune to criticism from other women. That’s not a road I would ever want society to go down.

Some men can often feel entitled to a girlfriend/ partner, and can often expect a "standard" of attractiveness and accomplishment (at risk of sounding like Jane Austin) that is above the reality of his own situation.

The Andrew Tate and incel movement is of bitter men like this that deflect their inadequacies into blaming women rather than working at becoming a more appealing version of themselves. It's much more unusual for women to naval gaze in this specific way and arrive at this reaction to it.

It's clearly not the majority of men, but there are enough of a minority with this attitude to create a movement like this.

I think the op is maligning the whole
forum quite well herself with such an unpleasant op. That alongside several other threads highlights a really unpleasant tone to the forum now.

I think exactly the same can be said of women. Far too many put looks, perfection and an Instagramable life above all else as the OP illustrates. Grim.

Exactly!

It depends on what your idea of attractive is. E.g. If you think blond eyed men are attractive, then you have a conscious or unconscious hiss against dark men.

In my experience, men of any characteristics can be vile.

Without coming across as a deluded bighead, I could have had practically anyone in my 20s and still turn heads now in my early 30s. The most arrogant and entitled men who try it on are the most conventionally good looking, it's like they don't have to work on a personality because they offer a handsome face. I suppose the same could be said about some attractive women.

What I have noticed is shorter men getting so much stick from women, 'little man syndrome' etc, but I personally have found a lot of men over 6ft have a superiority complex, like being 6ft + automatically makes them hot property.

I am sure you would be delighted if a man created a thread replacing the word men with women.
What a horrible assertion and attitude. Hope, if you have kids, you aten't teaching them such bogoted nonsense.

I’ve known some tall men like that too - arrogant, conceited and smug.

As a bloke who's always had close female friends, in my experience it's the good looking guys who know/think they can always get another woman who are vile.

I'm an ugly bugger but have always got on well with women and as I said, have good female friends.