Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

So there is no tangible or recorded evidence?

Another genuine question @KeepHopefulas you’ve spoken about god forgiving all sins and that accepting Jesus and god redeems you.

If a man joined your church who was a convicted peadophile but has since accepted Jesus and therefore been ‘forgiven’ in his eyes, and your priest asked you to be kind and welcoming to him, to say a cheery hello and chat with your family and children at services so he didn’t feel unwanted by the congregation… would you say “yes, absolutely?” or would you say you feel uncomfortable doing so? What if your priest asked you to host the man in your home on a religious holiday so he wasn’t alone? Would you do so? I’m always curious as to whether people who speak of forgiveness and acceptance would follow through on things like this if asked to by their church leaders.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

I believe in the existence of 'demons' but that's as an occultist and witch, and demons are see in a very different light in the occult/witchcraft subcultures. Demons are seen as spiritual entities that can be worked with and called upon to assist with our spells/rituals and to bestow gifts/desires upon us.

At the risk of going round in circles, there is plenty of incontrovertible evidence about how the earth was created, and it doesn’t include god. However, even if you don’t believe be the facts, how can you reconcile a Christian time line of just over 2,000 years with civilisations that have existed for thousands of years longer?

I can’t speak for all atheists and non believers, but I strongly suspect that most of them, like me, understand what Christianity is. The concept of Christianity is very simple. There’s not much to understand - the plot is pretty simple. We just don’t believe it. That doesn’t mean we don’t see its value to those who need validation or direction though. And we also see its dangers :)

It would be wise to be seen to avoid putting that man in situations where there might be suspicion or temptation.

A convicted thief might repent, but probably not good to trust him with counting the offering or doing the bank run

I think we may be cut from similar cloth 😘

Why would I believe in something which doesn’t exist. As I don’t believe heaven or hell exist, I know I have nothing to worry about.

Ok, if you didn’t have children. You’d then break bread with a convicted paedophile in your home at the say so of your priest?

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Are you an occultist/witch?

My life is not meaningless - it’s been pretty amazing. 30 year marriage and counting, DT’s who I adore, live in a beautiful country and have enjoyed everything about my life. Nothing to look back on with regret. When I eventually die, I’ll be very grateful for the life I’ve lived.

Christians are challenged to prove that God exists, He made the world, in six days, Jesus was resurrected, the Flood, the ark and so on and so on ad infinitum. Often not out of genuine interest in the truth but to justify their non belief or perhaps to wind them up.

It works both ways. Show me positive proof that God does not exist.

Where is he, what’s he done - negatives to both. The world was created by evolution - science is amazing . I love it.

Prove he exists - you can’t.

I'm pleased that you have a happy life. God offers you an even happier life without end if you want it.

But you have to say "yes". Your choice.

Yes, sort of. Accidental and chaos, mainly lol. Strong affinity with the tarot, which I have been practising for 30 years plus.... the Crowley deck.

Definitely my choice. It’s the same for everyone. Live the best life you can as it’s the only one you’ve got.

As you well know, proving anything is done by looking at all of the facts to support a given position. So far, every fact points to there not being a god. It’s for those postulating that there is to provide the evidence for their theory.

Which then leads to the question, which god? There are well over 3,000 gods believed around the world today, and anthropologists estimate there have been over 18,000 in history. And yet, despite the huge number, no evidence to support the existence of any of them.

But there doesn’t need to be - at their core all religions are a codified set of values, beliefs and rules that help some people make sense of the world. And that’s fine. You are free to believe :)

No. Evolution is a theory that many experts pick holes in and many people totally reject. That doesn't come anywhere near proving God's non existence.

Prove that there is no God, since you are so convinced.

Where is god ? I’m in my mid 50’s - he’s taking his time showing himself.

@KeepHopeful

Would Jesus really describe the life of kind, loving, caring people as ‘meaningless’ had they not said they believe in him by the time they die? All the good things they did on earth for other humans is ‘meaningless’ if they aren’t Christian?

I think sometimes your wording is less than ideal when it comes to communicating a faith supposedly based on love and forgiveness. To describe people’s lives as being meaningless if heaven doesn’t exist is borderline offensive!

I was told my DP died of cancer because he was a Goth, by an alleged JW. Said delightful specimen took it upon herself to message me shortly after he passed to spread her rather unpleasant version of "the truth" and condemn me to everlasting torment if I didn't change my ways. There's a whole thread on here I started at the time. So, I'm rather opposed to "believers" as often they are sheep in wolf's clothing it seems.

She offered to exorcise me as I'm obvious demonic in nature. As far as I'm concerned the concept of God is on itself one of the most destructive forces in human history.

What also blows my mind is that certain faiths would reject a blood transfusion due to their beliefs. I can half understand them rejecting it for themselves, their body their choice and all I suppose, but to think that religion is so important to them they would be willing to let their child die, is unthinkable to me. I would hope the state would step in and override that decision.

You know perfectly well you can’t prove that anymore than you can prove the non existence of anything invisible.

He’s lodging at KeepHopeful’s place.

I think atheists have a much happier and worthwhile life as we know it’s the only one we’ve got.

We’re not worried by the non existent heaven, sins, hell, devil, day of judgement etc or false promises of an afterlife.

I’m so sorry, that’s so unthinkably cruel.

I’ve known some genuinely very kind religious folk but an awful lot of unkind ones who are cruel under the guise of ‘spreading the word’.

Sorry for your loss