To be annoyed/uncomfortable about ex doing this

[Thecrystalkoala]

Hi guys

So AIBU to feel uncomfortable about this?

Ex husband has our child every other w/e.

She is 10 but about a year ago started changing downstairs so I asked him to leave her to herself to wash her body etc when it’s bath time (of course keeping an ear out and asking if she’s ok). He said ok and that was that.

I’ve recently been teaching my daughter how to wash her own hair. It’s VERY THICK and she doesn’t do a good job so keep re washing it. I asked her if I could go in earlier and wash it for her as we were a bit strapped for time. She covered herself (her choice) while I quickly washed her hair.

I don’t know what prompted me but I asked her if her father still washes her in the bath to which she said yes. When I asked if he washes her bits she said yes.

Im a bit weirded out by this because 1/ I asked him to give her privacy and 2/ She’s developing downstairs and upstairs and I just think it’s not appropriate to be honest.

He is the definition of a narcissist and often ignores my advice (to her detriment in the past) he’s even told me previously that I should look after her more by washing her in the bath and doing her hair. I think encouraging independence is a good thing personally.

Anyway, I digress. AIBU?

Thanks

I was bathing and washing long thick hair much younger than this. My periods and pubic hair arrived at age 9 so this would have been extremely worrying.

OP, why would your daughter hate you for being her protector?
As others have said, don't speak to him before NSPCC.
Good luck.

OP I am so glad you have contacted NSPCC.

some of the advice on this thread is naive and potentially very damaging. People mean well but they clearly have no safeguarding training and no idea what they are talking about.

i believe all parents should be given basic training in this area.

All those who advise talking to the dad - below from NSPCC

Never talk to the alleged perpetrator about the child’s disclosure. This could make things a lot worse for the child.

Please get support for yourself from a domestic abuse organisation, @Mamamover . It's very obvious you are frightened of him and terrified of 'doing the wrong thing'.

If he's done nothing wrong, nothing will happen, or perhaps he will just be forced to engage with some parenting guidance. Your daughter will not hate you. You would be neglecting your daughter if you did not talk to a professional about the concerns she has raised. That's the reality. I know it takes courage to do the right thing when you feel under threat. It's time to address how frightened you are of this awful man.

This is bizarre. My 5 and 7 year olds have been showering themselves (including hair washing) since they were 4. I only go in if they call me (which is rare)
I wouldn’t be letting her go to her dads until I was certain he wouldn’t be entering the bathroom when she was in there.

Sorry OP, but in a situation like this, who cares if he's cross with you, you MUST protect your daughter at all costs. If he's difficult about it, then you don't necessarily have to have any contact with him, other than by text to make arrangements. It can be arranged, assuming that your daughter IS actually safe with him, for a third party to take her to him when she sees him.

I'm really relieved that you are getting ready to speak to the NSPCC when they open, and hope that you will report back as to what they say.

Above all, try and keep calm for your DD's sake.

I think your coy language suggests you're approach to this isn't entirely "normal" either so it's very difficult to gauge whether his behaviour is odd or just seems odd in relation to yours.

Everyone needs to use the right words, especially if you think there's a possibility of or potential for abuse.

You’re doing the right thing speaking to the NSPCC.

The whole thing makes me very uncomfortable including your use of language. I know tou said you use proper terminology at home, I really hope you do. But it’s concerning that your daughter didn’t think this washing was unusual and talk to you.

This is seriously inappropriate.

Definitely needs reporting to one of the following: MASH team at local authority, NSPCC, GP, school designated safeguarding lead.

Don't talk to him again.

Write down what DD told you. Date it. Keep it safe. (What he does how she said she felt. )

Seriously consider whether she should go for contact at all.

This ^

She should have been washing herself for years by 10.It is very dodgy and unnecessary for anyone else even being in the bathroom.
You need to take advice on this from NSPCC or social services

My son has very thick long hair. At that age I would every now and then stage an intervention on his hair. He would wear his bathers in the bath or shower, I would untangle and tray his hair, then I would leave the room, lock the door and get him to wash himself privately.

I think that you are right to be concerned.

I will even go as far to say in the cultures where children are washed much later in life it tends to be more like the mother doing the task. I am not directly calling your husband inappropriate but there isn’t much cultural context for a dad to be doing this.

A 10-year-old doesn't need supervising, let alone washing, by an adult in the bathroom. Even aside from the primary concern of sexual abuse, treating a 10-year-old like an incapable toddler is also really infantilising and creepy.

I was wearing my first bra at 10 and started my periods about a month after my 11th birthday. The thought of an adult washing me or even not allowing me privacy in the bathroom at that age is actually making me shudder.

It's doubly worrying that you had a conversation with him about this a year ago when your daughter's body started changing and he's continued to do it.

You have done the right thing by speaking to the NSPCC.

I understand your worry and that as a narcissist he won’t listen to you.

Can you find any books or online articles that endorse your view to show him. Ie if the experts say it’s inappropriate- would he listen?

I endorse the idea of her not washing/showering/hair washing at his if it’s just one night.

Narcissists hate other people thinking less of them - can you ask your MIL/SIL to have words? Anyone whose opinion of them that they value?

The OP has already discussed this with him. He has continued to do it. I think you're being very naive about what's actually going on here, to be honest.

Again this is bad advice. OP is seeking advice on safeguarding from the NSPCC.

this advice would play out very badly if (and hopefully not) there is abuse

UPDATE

I spoke to NSPCC who advised me to contact him and air my issue.

I have done so. I always walk on eggs shells when messaging him anyway so very tactfully worded my message.

Of course it was aggression back and personal attacks on me. Being the wounded victim. No mention of DDs wishes etc.

I didn’t reply as I was on the school run.

Had a reply to say that he will do as I’ve asked but he will ensure she knows it’s all my doing. Followed by more aggression and personal attacks.

I need to find a way to communicate in an alternative way. He is impossible to coparent with.

I think I still have PTSD from the relationship to be honest.

I feel so sick and shaken. My priority was only and has only been for my daughter in this whole matter.

Absolutely not. Dd is 7 and has a supervised bath and doesn't need me to wash her in her private areas. I just stand by the bathroom door letting her get on with it.
Dad definitely has no concept of boundaries.

What an absolute 🔔 end to put it nicely. Good for you and fuck what he thinks or telling your daughter she will understand if not now later. Bless you sounds like my ex, it took years to get over the torture and id rather be slapped than the mental side of it. Sending hugs your way

he will do as I’ve asked but he will ensure she knows it’s all my doing.

Right
So he will say
"Dd I cannot come in and spray you with the shower hose while you are naked because mummy said so. "

Dd will be like
Yeh duh

Well done, @Thecrystalkoala and I'm sure you're right about the ongoing trauma. It's very hard to heal from it when you're constantly re-traumatised through his behaviour as you try to co-parent. Did the NSPCC take your DD's details and did they suggest that you call back and update them? Hopefully they have already talked to you about next steps if you remain concerned. It's good that your dick ex is going to tell your DD that it's all your fault. She will learn that you are protecting her. You can tell her, if you wish, that you took advice because at 10 years old she should be bathing in private without help and that you can imply that her father needed to change his behaviour. This is an important and empowering message. If there is any fallout from this for your DD, please keep notes and seek further guidance.

Have you accessed support from your local domestic abuse organisation, or do you think that you could? I feel it could really help you deal with his ongoing abuse.

OP, well done for going to NSPCC. If they haven’t given you a next steps, would you be able to sit with your daughter’s school safeguarding lead and together tell her why you were concerned and how she can handle this, including contacting you if her father crosses a line ?

It’s not your ‘fault’, it’s all about him wanting power over you and unfortunately the only way he can now get that power is through your poor daughter. My best wishes for you both.

Well done!

In terms of communication with your ex are you aware of the grey rock method? Alternatively if family court is, or likely to be, involved yellow rock is a slightly more court-friendly version.

Definitely need a discussion with your daughter about setting her own boundaries with dad and one with ex about it too. I started shouting the phrase “wash your pits and bits!” Past a certain age and haven’t helped them since!