Why were trans threads hidden?

[ImConfusedDotComHelp]

Since the ruling that biological sex matters I've been reading more and more. Every day.

To my shame, I didn't really follow the issue or consider it before. The more I read, the more horrified I am at how women who've been campaigning have been treated by society, by TRA activists, by other women and even on mumsnet hidden in a corner in sex and feminism.

JK Rowling having rape and death threats for sharing her concerns. Women being cancelled. This is an every women and every girl issue.

With the rise in toxic masculinity and misogyny in schools and society we all need to talk about this more.

Well done to those that did the talking and campaigning for the safety of all women.

Oh, no bearing, of course.

I think threads about the SC ruling and GC women ought to be in AIBU (and Chat) and not only in the FWR board.

I'm glad to see so many of them appearing everywhere now. It means hopefully that more women will see them.

I really don't need your suggestions either. For me it's not just about where the trans threads are. It's about the tone of some of the posters. That, as much as the content, is what I don't want to engage with.

And yet… you do.

Yes. I like to read the AIBU threads as it is a good indicator of what has most captured MNers attention on the day. It is full of insightful posts on any number of topics.

It is bizarre to see so many complaints that the board isn’t curated to fit some poster’s wishes.

Did you raise an eyebrow and make a comment about the post that the poster using those terms referred to?

Did you notice the dismissal of violence against women and children that was in that post? And did you push back on the central accusation about transphobia?

Because I didn’t see you comment on that poster’s tone or the substance of their post. Just on the reaction to that post.

Or is your censure just aimed at women you feel don’t measure up to your standard of kindness? Just like you don’t like it when people choose to use correct language and explain why and push back on those who are attempting to use emotional manipulation to change their language to make someone more comfortable.

"She took her clothes off in the female changing rooms in front of the womem present.

He took his clothes off in the female changing rooms in front of the women present

These sentences describe exactly the same event, involving the same person. But they evoke a very different response, don't you think?"

Exactly.
This is exactly why the SC ruling was so important to us.
This is why language is important.
This is why science and facts are important.
This is why correct pronouns are important.

How the hell we ever got to the point of a male rapist's demands of being called 'she' being allowed in a courtroom I'll never quite fathom, and I never want to be back there again.

I will not have any of this waved away as 'unimportant' by anyone. Or that it was ever about anything other than the protection of women and girls thank you.

And I'm finding their tone increasingly tiresome. I'm permitted to say so.

The ‘he took his clothes off’ vs ‘she’ is an excellent example of language. And how it is used to support male people’s demands rather than the needs of female people.

Just like

‘he is a male athlete and he should not be allowed to compete in female events’

vs

‘she is a male athlete and she should not be allowed to compet in female events’.

or

‘she is a ‘cis’ woman and should not be allowed to compete in female events’

Accurate and precise language over ‘kind’ language.

After all, look at the number of people who still believe that Semenya should be competing in female events even after the medical diagnosis has been published and Semenya has said things like ‘my testicles don’t make me less of a woman!’ And some people believe there is this ambiguity in sex categorisation of humans which is completely false. A human with a difference of sex development is still either male or female and can be assessed as to whether they process the testosterone their body produces.

Telling women they should use demanded pronouns just keeps adding to the confusion and the misinformation that keeps being reproduced. It is not fucking kind at all. But apparently, we are to be censured for it while other posters can call feminists transphobic and post misogynist defences for centring males with no censure.

Once you see the double standards it is really clear.

Noted. And every time you post to complain, posters are just as permitted to point out that you don’t have to engage with a thread and complain that it is in AIBU.

I'm saying that I find the tone of some posters increasingly tiresome and that is at least as important to me now as where the threads are, if not more so. I've made my point and I'd be obliged if you could leave me alone.

Yes, we all have our posters that we find deeply tiresome, they’re not all on any one side of any argument.

I believe in freedom of speech and understand why some people are gender critical. But as the parent of a trans person, I do find the trans threads on MN difficult to read and am grateful for the opportunity to hide the topic/individual threads.

I couldn’t imagine what people get from posting on a thread they are not interested in while making no contribution except to complain the thread is in existence and that they find posters tiresome. But each to their own.

@Never2many

Never2many
But discussion of trans isn’t allowed to be a general discussion.
You’re either transphobic or you’re flamed for not being.
nobody is allowed to be anything but transphobic on MN. This is why Barclays and Ocado want nothing to do with them.
People have become so far intrenched in the whole single sex spaces argument that they have lost sight of the fact that they have become bigots.
Let’s be honest here, how many women are being raped by trans women? Genuinely? Because it certainly isn’t anything near a large number, but as soon as it happens once the whole trans community is blamed.
Trans people have existed for an eternity. There have always been trans men and women, for as long as I remember.

Because it certainly isn’t anything near a large number, but as soon as it happens once the whole trans community is blamed.

Have you decided on how [(edit) any] many rapes are OK yet?

I agree.

N + 1

Then hide them

Absolutely.

Pronouns

Why do I need to remember someones self image?

Why am I expected to remember that
• the male Jo wants to be called she/her or be described as a woman or has a partner or if married or has a faith or has children or any the many things Jo feels is important in Jo's life?
• the female Jo wants to be called he/him or be described as a man or has a partner or if married or has a faith or has children or any the many things Jo feels is important in Jo's life?

It may come as a shock to some people when they realise that they are not the center of My Universe (or The Universe) and they can count themselves lucky if I (and I suspect many people) remember their name.

And what about my question of rights?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318876-why-were-trans-threads-hidden?reply=143709899

How is using the sexed language for one sex helpful if applied to the other sex in this context?

There are 4 doctors on staff :
A) female (she/her) who classes herself as a woman
B) female (he/him) who classes herself himself as a transman
C) male (he/him) who classes himself as a man
D) male (she/her) who classes himself herself as a transwoman.

The there are 4 chaperones on staff :
E) female (she/her) who classes herself as a woman
F) female (he/him) who classes herself himself as a transman
G) male (he/him) who classes himself as a man
H) male (she/her) who classes himself herself as a transwoman.

"Cis" and "woman"

There is a poster who insists that woman means female humans (or "ciswoman") and male humans (or "transwoman").

And will make a statement :
"I am a woman.... "

Usually to add "a womans opinion carries more weight than a mans opinion " context to the statement

In that posters language they have said
"I am either a female or a male human"

So language matters.

A cause
IMO if someone is put off a "cause" because they want to shoot the messenger they never ranked the cause as an important objective to begin with.

Fun or support
What actual risk is involved for a celebrity who said :
• TWAW so that TW should have access to any and all spaces and activities and rights that women have?
• TMAM so that TM should have access to any and all spaces and activities and rights that men have?
What risk is involved in calling women who say no transphobic?

You dont like JK Rowling because she made money as she was lucky and very good at business by managing to turn her imagination into a intetnational fanbase in the entertainment industry.

And you dont like her twitter conversations because you think she engages for fun and not to support womens rights ie to be recognised as a sex class rather than a gender class?

Do you think she did not understand that she would be called names and even shuned by the people who called women who said no transphobic?

I am betting she never imagined TRA's would post porn at children for the "crime" of drawing a picture for JKR to admire or that TRA's would blame her for TRA doing that.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1774749954629652873?lang=en

Do you think that this ^ was posted for fun?

Or was it asking the Police/CPS to put their (well tax payers) money down against a woman who could fully fund her legal team without blinking for as long as it took?

Do you think if the Police decided to bring charges that she would have been allowed to opt out of the trial or the prison term if the charges were proven?

Boxing

There are many reasons that girls were/are carefully socalised not to box each other and boys. One very simple one is that society recognises the male physical advantage when it physical fights, and why DV kills many more women than men.

And physical strenght really counts in boxing.

Female sports was a classification designed to allow both sex to participate.

However entry into "Female" Boxing like a lot of pro (and non-pro) sports is not limited to being a female. But by being classed into a group called female eg having a less than 'male' testosterone level and documentation saying female.

And non-DSD males and/or DSD males could qualify for the female class by reducing their natural testosterone production to below 'male' levels but still have testosterone levels above 'female' levels and having 'female' documentation.

IK was trained to professional standards by people who understood the physicial differences between the sexes. Hormone testing would have been an ongoing process as doping (eg using extra testosterone to build muscle mass) is against the rules.

So IK and the people around IK would have known there was an issue long before it became public. And IK decided to fight in the female class knowing a win would bring a celebrity status.

Ik was tested with the medical report saying male with a DSD
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5202171-imane-khelif-medical-report-reported-in-reduxx

The original post referenced by @Anewdawnanewname

There’s a post on the previous page that suggests a poster is a femphobic bigot and uses the term “twwannnsphobic” to mock - no one seems to be batting an eyelid about that.

has been deleted by MN.

But is it Ok to not blink if and when the post followed this type of opinion from @Never2many ?

(My underlining)

But discussion of trans isn’t allowed to be a general discussion.

You’re either transphobic or you’re flamed for not being.

nobody is allowed to be anything but transphobic on MN. This is why Barclays and Ocado want nothing to do with them.

People have become so far intrenched in the whole single sex spaces argument that they have lost sight of the fact that they have become bigots.

Let’s be honest here, how many women are being raped by trans women? Genuinely? Because it certainly isn’t anything near a large number, but as soon as it happens once the whole trans community is blamed.

Trans people have existed for an eternity. There have always been trans men and women, for as long as I remember.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318876-why-were-trans-threads-hidden?reply=143718199

@Never2many has opted not to give the transphobic bigots of MN an actual number of women who can be raped before it becomes anything near a large number.

And its just
1 woman ...
and
1 rapist ....

lets see Pre-trial
1 victim of rape
1+N police officers
1+N medical staff
1+N prosecution staff
1+N defence staff
1+N ?

And if it gets to trial
1 Judge
12 jury
1+N court staff
0+N other witnesses
1+N ?

? = Add others involved including family and friends of everyone involved.

And how about what happens after a conviction?

A Womens prison?
With women inmates who cant exactly follow @Hufflemuff suggestion:

Hufflemuff · Yesterday 18:49

Are they? Because I keep seeing them and it's getting fucking boring... just the same sweeping statements and sentiments repeated. If you don't want to call someone "she" then don't... If you want to refuse to go somewhere because they have a gender neutral policy then fucking don't go there!

Tbh I'd actually welcome seeing some pro-trans posts, just to balance it out a bit and see some counter arguements because it's so one sided on here. It's like watching old people sitting and talking to themselves in a care home repeating the same things.

Rant over 🤣🤣🤣

Should the women on staff who are tasked with strip search roles decide to fucking dont go to work?

But I’ve not seen any posts that are generally AIBU. It’s just like when the latest royal scandal happens and people make up spurious reasons why it’s AIBU and they get moved to the royal thread.

I suggest if you’re not capable of posting in the correct topic, then this probably isn’t the site for you.

I will return the favour, I would suggest if you cannot read threads the original poster thinks fits AIBU then perhaps the site is not for you. Particularly if you cannot scroll past threads that don’t interest you.

But helleofabore

scrolling past threads that don’t interest me what-so-fucking-ever is really hard 😩

I know. Imagine also being so arrogant that you think MNHQ should curate the board just for your tastes and you should try to shame those who are interested in contributing or reading the discussion.

MN has simply allowed free speech on this issue - something other places have not. I am very glad the Supreme Court has made it clear facts and biology matter. However the court has not got rid of those other parts of the 2010 Act which prohibit discrimination on grounds of gender or sexual orientation so a biological man who wants to wear a dress or have his p enis removed etc etc will still be treated with respect. However he will not be counted in statistics on sex eg how many men v women are on boards or in prison - so the court ruling is extremely long over due and very welcome.