to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

Everything you’ve talked about. That eating the fruit broke the relationship, that food could not forgive, that there needed to be a big sacrifice (Jesus). It’s all a convoluted mess so either he made it like that, or he can’t change it.

Did google tell you that?

Funny🤣. Luckily sone things are so straightforward I can skip my googling

I feel like I've explained it but I'll try again!

God has no interest in just 'making' us love him because that would be meaningless.

The sacrifice thing isn't really a rule made up by God - his presence is so powerful and pure that anything impure cannot be in his presence. Since 'the fall', humans became impure because we started trying to figure out right and wrong ourselves and are evidently not good at that. Therefore humans stopped being able to be in God's presence without some kind of impurity absorbing sacrifice. Initially this was animal in form, this was not effective and so God sent his Son as a sacrifice for all mankind.

Obviously it's fine for you not to believe any of this! Just explaining it as I understand and believe it.

@3ormorecharacters Ok. Let's start with the basics instead of all these convoluted arguments making excuses for weird 'rules': show us any evidence that there actually is some sort of god.

No, I'm not arguing about free will at all. I just don't believe in many things that some Christians do. I am interested as to why they do, though and am always willing to learn something new.

If you're looking for evidence then you won't find it, but that's kind of a feature not a bug 😂

I personally have felt God's presence in my life and witnessed it in the life of others. I appreciate that is not evidence for other people though and wouldn't expect you to take it as such. It's fine for you not to believe, I'm not here to proselytise. Just trying to answer the OP's question.

I do read the bible and am content with my beliefs and relationship with God. I am always interested to discuss these topics, though and learn something new.

But nothing whatsoever is ‘pure’. Killing a bunch of animals isn’t going to ‘purify’ anyone, either. A first-century itinerant Jewish preacher enduring a particularly nasty form of execution isn’t going to ‘purify’ anyone either. Regardless of whether his followers thought he’d risen from the dead, or his biographers constructed his life and death as involving careful references to OT prophecies.

I agree, that would be the loving thing to do. Not say I will only forgive you if I kill my son brutally.

Why does it need a sacrifice? Who decided that? Who decided that it was no longer sufficient and more was needed?

you explain it like it’s some form of structured rules but also that god is omnipotent. Both can’t be true.

I know it’s what you believe. I’m just trying to understand the belief and how it all links together

I guess the logic of the purifying blood sacrifice (as far as human logic can be applied to these things) is that the sacrificed animal takes on the sin of the sacrificer and "pays the debt" if you like. Animals could "pay for" a small amount of impurity on a person-by-person basis but the Son of God (or "first century itinerant preacher) as sufficient to pay it for all mankind.

Again - no pressure to believe any of this, just trying to explain my understanding of it!

But again, in your beliefs someone has had to have decided that this sacrifice is what’s needed. Who?

Again I feel like I've kind of explained it? Maybe try watching the Bible Project video "Where Heaven and Earth Overlap", they explain it more clearly than I probably can!

I did look, and neither that or you have got even close to explaining. There is a lot of “this is how it is” but you don’t seem to see the paradox here.

It’s not meant to be a gotcha argument, I honestly don’t understand why he would need other people, over varying time scales, to write his book. I understand and accept people believe in god I just can’t understand why they think the bible is direct writings from god rather than just men writing it off their own backs.

Most do, ime. But some believe the world is only a few thousand years old and obviously dinosaurs then become a bit awkward!

What religion are you, OP? In the spirit of asking questions.

Several of your comments suggest you have one.

I see where you're coming from but personally don't see the paradox. Yes I guess God could just change the rules? But the point of God is that he is unchanging. Our relationship with him changes but he doesn't change, nor do the "rules" (though I hesitate to call them that because I think the term is a little misleading - maybe more like "structures" might be more accurate). Ultimately I'm not sure how much human logic you can apply to the inner workings of God, though I'm sure I'll be accused of copping out by going there.

Why? I believe in dinosaurs and a young earth

Killing an innocent animal to get close to God is just fundamentally wrong. I do not believe a loving God would ever require it.

Well, I think because the evidence for dinosaurs shows they were on the earth a very long time ago. So that doesn't tally with a young earth. Why do you believe in a young earth?

The Old Testament God isn't particularly loving! The logic is that sin incurs a debt to God. That sin can be paid for by blood. The sacrificed animal can pay that debt on behalf of the person who sacrifices it. Again - I am not saying you have to approve of this! Just explaining the purpose of a sacrifice in response to the OP.

Absolutely, we are both entitled to say what we believe. But, logically, one of us is wrong

Especially as it’s a hodge-podge of tribal history, laws, poetry, letters, proverbs etc etc written over many centuries by different people with different intentions, many years after the events they relate, and collected in entirely different ways at different times by different sects.

Wouldn’t a giant hand inscribing a scroll from the clouds have been a lot clearer?