To think the school could do more to accommodate working parents

[Eastie77Returns]

By working I mean parents who do so out of the home (don’t want this to turn into a SAH/ working parents debate, I know all parents do work of some nature)

DD is going on a residential trip next week. Parents are asked to drop children off at the venue at 12.30 and collect them at the end of the residential “sometime between 12 and 3pm, we will let you know what time exactly on the day”

It’s pure bad luck that I have all day work meetings/training on both days. The residential venue is a short walk from the school and a number of teachers will be going from the school to the venue mid morning. I spoke with some parents who are also a bit stuck due to work commitments and we collectively e-mailed and asked if our children could be dropped of at school in the morning and then walk with the teachers to the venue. We were told no (no reason given). We asked if we could get some clarity around pick up time on the final day as 12 - 3 is quite a window of time and were told no as it depends on the weather and if the children do an outdoor activity on that day or not. We are to keep our phones on and look out for a text from the school. The school also often schedules meetings at 3.45 for example and there are other instances where they have organised events mid morning/afternoon.

I am very lucky to work for a flexible employer and I will somehow have to adjust my work schedule but some parents I spoke to work in retail, medical settings etc and do not have that option. AIBU to think the school could do more to take into account there are parents who cannot just start work in the middle of the day or up and leave at short notice to pick up their child?

Probably not. I agree the timings do seem batty but the attitude of I’ll do as I like is now common and the goodwill from teachers is rapidly disappearing. I’ve been teaching 25 years and am fed up of the moaning. I still go over and above but not half as much as I used to which means the children miss out.
To be fair the OP is right but it’s the responses of ignore school and do as you like doesn’t make it okay. This response is often used when the school are being sensible but it doesn’t suit the parent.

So it's a tick box for the school and sod all fto do withr safeguarding the students. It wasn't a thing a few years ago when my DS was at School how cones colleges don't have all these pernickety rules then?

An 18 year old can get married, joined the armed forces and literally die for their country…but cannot walk unaided on a
school trip from because of safeguarding.

What am I reading.

When social commentators talk about the snowflake generation I think we (adults) need to think about how we have enabled this situation.

I don’t know.

Partly it’s a tick box, but partly it’s following the law. It’s partly to protect teachers and partly to protect students. It just means there are no grey areas or falling between gaps.

The last trip l ran which was about 2015 had all this in place. It’s only got tighter since then.

It might be ‘pernickity’ to you, but it’s the law. They are school responsibility on trip and it is up to the school to ensure they get home safely. It’s just how it is🤷🏼‍♀️

There must be a good reason why this is what the school have requested.

Residentials are brilliant but a complete pain in the arse to organise with all the paperwork, safe guarding, organisation, checking - double checking and triple checking everything, medical needs (diabetics, asthmatics, children with allergies needing epi pens), SEND needs and hours of prep, speaking to parents who query everything and that’s before the staff work unpaid from 3:30pm until 8:30am each day!

Trips and residentials are at risk of not happening in so many schools due to the amount of goodwill needed from staff.

So, there must be a bloody good reason why they have said this is what the plan is!!

But unless they’ve cleared non attendance after trip with the LEA they can’t do it.

They are legally responsible until hometime unless this has been permitted by the LEA

What I suggested since the OP has tried to raise it with the school is first to escalate to governors.

But yeah if after that, no dice, this school deserves it if parents just ignore these stupid instructions

If they deigned to tell us the reason, fine. We just got a blanket no to kids walking to the venue.

Re the finish time “we cannot tell you what time it will finish because it depends on the weather”. We do not know what that means?

But due to the tone of finality in the email we didn’t push any further and we did not want to be accused of harassing the HOY who sent the e-mail. We are very aware that parents who question things can be accused of bullying teachers etc.

You just know don't you that the "not my Nathan, he's perfectly sensible" brigade would be the first to sue, when not-actually-terribly-sensible-Nathan falls under a bus when he's absconded from a trip...

That sounds really unusual for a secondary school! DH and I would struggle with that as we're both teachers in different boroughs from the schools our DC attend, wouldn't have our phones on in class on the final afternoon and also wouldn't be able to leave our classes of 30 to collect a child part way through the afternoon. Parents in similarly inflexible jobs would also struggle.

Were we in this situation and the school unwilling to budge on the 'parent must drop off/collect' issue, I'd do what I could to recruit a local student/babysitter and pay them to do the drop-off/collection.

They should do mor. Our school always starts the residential after the start of school day( so you drop them off as usual) and ties return time in with the end of the school day (so again as close to normal as possible coach delays aside).

Thanks for taking the time to explain what I could not be bothered to given the amount of arseholes on this thread.

If there is a "bloody good reason" why haven't they shared it?

Why do they need to further explain? You have no idea how staff go above and beyond to deliver these experiences.

I remember the year I decided not to anymore. It was a tough decision because it is so worthwhile for the students but the lack of gratitude or acknowledgement for the teachers became too much.

Hopefully next year the school decides not to bother. Then none of the parents will be inconvenienced.

How would I know?!

I've tried multiple times to decipher this. Google translate isn't helping either.

So much to unpack here. Simply- you just don’t get it and it’s not all about you

That’s really sad isn’t it. @Goditsmemargaret

I am the same. After an awful trip last year, I decided not to organise them anymore either.

If someone else wants me to go as a member of staff I will but I’m not planning / organising or anything to lead it. Whatever you do isn’t ever good enough, no matter how much time you spend planning and organising at the detriment of your own family, it’s a thankless task and you just get slagged off on WhatsApp, so what’s the point.

That said if I were this school I would have told the parents why the children need to be dropped off at the residential and therefore had a lot fewer emails to deal with.

Edited as I hadn’t quote the poster I was replying to.

Schools submit risk assessments on a database that is checked by the EVC in school, then the head and then someone at the LA. Every single consideration needs to be on that form.

Ratios, ages of children, how many children, which staff, illnesses (staff and children), route of the walk, SEND, weather, crossings etc. They cannot submit part of a form saying no idea of the ratios as some kids will be walking and some coming in the car. No idea of how many children or how many staff. No idea of illnesses or the SEND as SEND kids may or may not walk or go in the car. The form would be rejected by the EVC, head and LA. This forms the travel part of the trip RA and if this is rejected then the whole trip is rejected until every part is completed accurately.

They do not need to explain?

Oh well that’s fine. I’ll tell them that I’ll pick DD up “sometime in the afternoon” but not specify when. I’ll tell teachers to “just keep their phone on” (as parents have been instructed) and I’ll let them know when I’m good and ready what time I’ll be arriving.

I won’t say why I’m behaving like this because I don’t need to further explain.

As mentioned, we didn’t send lots of emails. Just the one.

And there hasn’t been any slagging off on WhatsApp. Lord knows the last thing we need is a SWAT team turning up on our doorsteps to arrest us for denigrating staff.*

We know Schools Cannot Be Criticised and per a PP, if they make rules parents do not understand, they do not have to explain the logic behind them to us.

*This is a joke.

I’ve read these three times and still have no clue what this has to do with grown men and women needing to be escorted to a school trip venue because of safeguarding.

Not when they are bloody adults

I don’t decide it. It’s what we were told to do by heads and safeguard lead.

And also as ‘bloody adults’ they chose to stay in a school environment. They just accept it.

Perhaps they will be fewer in 6 th forms rather than colleges if schools insist on babying them. One of mine went to college Another stayed in 6th for but could've done same A levels at the college. Now why ( bearing in mind once was rising 19 when leaving ( Sept birthday) would they want to stay where they are treated like 10 year olds

Why don't 6th form colleges have the same restrictions then?

So you are " told " to do it? Ok but can you not see yourself how bloody ridiculous it is