Page 22 | Sending love to trans people on MN and beyond

cassandre · 2025-04-17T19:58:30+00:00

This isn't an AIBU. I just wanted to send love to trans people, in the UK especially, and to other members of the LGBTQIA+ community. This hasn't been the easiest week for trans people, but there are a lot of us out there who accept you for who you are. We have your backs and we believe that eventually, tolerance and compassion will win.💖💖💖 Love from a longtime MNer and trans-inclusive feminist.

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:05

poetryandwine · 18/04/2025 23:57

I hope those on this thread concerned about the rights of all will watch the C4 clip. The barrister Samantha was soft spoken and polite.

Watch and see for yourself

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And again you missed the part where this person stated they had sex with a partner who thought they were female and the barrister didn’t tell them they are male. It is right there in the interview !

That is called sex by deception and if the partner reported it, it would be a crime.

I do encourage all readers to watch the interview. And understand that sex by deception is a crime.

JandamiHash · 19/04/2025 00:07

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:05

And again you missed the part where this person stated they had sex with a partner who thought they were female and the barrister didn’t tell them they are male. It is right there in the interview !

That is called sex by deception and if the partner reported it, it would be a crime.

I do encourage all readers to watch the interview. And understand that sex by deception is a crime.

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Samantha also seemed to focus not on the legalities of the ruling but a “Poor us we are marginalised why don’t you care!”.

Why do they persist at flogging the dead horse of expecting women to centre them?

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:09

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:02

She said precisely ‘Given the stats, he’s probably a sex offender as well - I’ve got a cell bell but can the officers respond before I’m raped…’

The first part of that sentence is false. There are important points around female spaces that get lost when the facts do.

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Just to be clear, you consider a 43% chance that the male cell mate being a ‘convicted’ sex offender is a statistic that is on the side of not being raped?

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:16

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:09

Just to be clear, you consider a 43% chance that the male cell mate being a ‘convicted’ sex offender is a statistic that is on the side of not being raped?

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It isn’t nice but in my world 43% < 50%, yes.

JandamiHash · 19/04/2025 00:18

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:16

It isn’t nice but in my world 43% < 50%, yes.

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Oh well then 7% difference means it’s TOTALLY unreasonable to be scared of rapists 🙄your desperation to downplay women’s experiences and fears know no bounds. Pathetic

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:20

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:16

It isn’t nice but in my world 43% < 50%, yes.

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Thank you.

That is a remarkable statement considering the degree to which we know sex crimes are vastly under reported.

Would you take those odds and share a cell with a sex offender ?

ZeldaFighter · 19/04/2025 00:21

No one ever answers this:

If trans women are women, should they be sent to women's prisons? If not, why not?

What about domestic violence refuges? Rape survivor support services? Locked mental health hospital wards? Hospital wards in general?

Why shouldn't trans women compete against women in rugby, boxing, cricket or football? Or any sport?

Toilets are the thin end of the wedge. If you accept trans women are women, then all the other single-sex services for women become available for men to claim.

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:23

Helleofabore · 18/04/2025 23:27

You really don't seem to understand sex offenders or violent offenders that you are desperately attempting to limit their crimes to 'female' people.

And you continue to ignore the known issues around reporting crimes and convictions in the UK. Do you honestly think that the numbers of those sex offences is not higher? Do you think that there are male people out there walking around who have not been reported? or who were reported but had the case dropped or dismissed?

Genuinely, this attempt at limitation is remarkable considering report after report about the crisis facing women and children and the lack of justice they get.

88/203 is on the side of what exactly? What point are you attempting to make?

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Sex crimes are beyond repugnant. The vast majority are not committed by trans women. Let’’s pressure society to prosecute improve the 3% prosecution rate and protect the rights of all victims.

According to the Williams Institute at UCLA trans people are also 4 times more likely to be the victims of sex crimes. It really would be worth knowing how much sex crime committed by trans people occurs within the trans community.

fiorenza · 19/04/2025 00:28

poetryandwine · 18/04/2025 14:14

@TheKeatingFive They definitely are excluded. They are as vulnerable on a men’s hospital ward as I would be.

They have lost their testosterone and muscle strength. They have the physical strength of women.

Our brains are our most important organs. Many studies show that when people are transgender from a very young age their brains are closer to the brains of their preferred sex. I can’t link on my phone but a good one appears in the highly respected Journal of the European Endocrinology Society, May 2018.

Being truly transgender is a measurable biological phenomenon

So, the transwomen's brains shrink?

JandamiHash · 19/04/2025 00:30

poetryandwine · 19/04/2025 00:23

Sex crimes are beyond repugnant. The vast majority are not committed by trans women. Let’’s pressure society to prosecute improve the 3% prosecution rate and protect the rights of all victims.

According to the Williams Institute at UCLA trans people are also 4 times more likely to be the victims of sex crimes. It really would be worth knowing how much sex crime committed by trans people occurs within the trans community.

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The vast majority are committed by men, of which transwomen are in that group.

Or did you REALLY think the risk men pose was eradicated when they said “I feel like a woman”

Not to mention TW actually commit sex crimes at a higher rate than men who don’t identify as women

Not really interested in stats from the US TBH, this is a thread about the U.K. ruling. Nevertheless, it’s not the problem of women to solve.

BiologicalRobot · 19/04/2025 00:31

According to the Williams Institute at UCLA trans people are also 4 times more likely to be the victims of sex crimes. It really would be worth knowing how much sex crime committed by trans people occurs within the trans community.

Can you break that down by country please. We all know it's higher in places like Brazil where TW are more likely to be involved in the sex trade. Can you state the UK stats?

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:38

“The vast majority are not committed by trans women”

Yes. That is how large population statistics work.

The point that we keep making is that there is no evidence that male people with transgender identities commit those sex crimes at a rate less than the general male UK population.

Looking at the total numbers of sex crimes and declaring “the vast majority are not committed by X’ doesn’t mean that the group ‘X’ is not a concern. Particularly when those people are accessing the single sex spaces of female people who might have been traumatised in any way by the sex group that X belong too.

Absolutely, the conviction rate is appalling and needs to be lifted. I don’t believe that there is any doubt this needs to be done and that there is anyone out there trying to silence or abuse the people working to do that.

And absolutely there needs to be sex crimes within the transgender community addressed. We have heard from several young female people with transgender identities that they have been sexually abused by males within the community. Can we also make sure we address the safeguarding fails that are happening within the LGBT sector too? The groups who run youth services and youth education seem to be very lax indeed with the number of sex crime charges and convictions recently.

Glowupera · 19/04/2025 00:38

@JandamiHash do you have a source for your comment please : TW actually commit sex crimes at a higher rate than men who don’t identify as women
And is this referring to the U.K. Context specifically?

Helleofabore · 19/04/2025 00:40

BiologicalRobot · 19/04/2025 00:31

According to the Williams Institute at UCLA trans people are also 4 times more likely to be the victims of sex crimes. It really would be worth knowing how much sex crime committed by trans people occurs within the trans community.

Can you break that down by country please. We all know it's higher in places like Brazil where TW are more likely to be involved in the sex trade. Can you state the UK stats?

Yes. I was about to post that about the prostitutes being included in the figures.

JandamiHash · 19/04/2025 00:51

Glowupera · 19/04/2025 00:38

@JandamiHash do you have a source for your comment please : TW actually commit sex crimes at a higher rate than men who don’t identify as women
And is this referring to the U.K. Context specifically?

It’s a couple of pages ago, a very good poster provide sources and links

Conistonhawks · 19/04/2025 00:55

Well since being given a written warning for addressing a huge biker, with full leathers and a beard as sir when he was a “women”. (Apparently I insulted him and was transphobic) I have hoped for a ruling like this.

MereNoelle · 19/04/2025 04:39

poetryandwine · 18/04/2025 23:57

I hope those on this thread concerned about the rights of all will watch the C4 clip. The barrister Samantha was soft spoken and polite.

Watch and see for yourself

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The clip where Samantha admitted to having sex by deception? Which is a crime

AliceEarrings · 19/04/2025 07:00

cassandre · 18/04/2025 17:28

😢Alas, I'm sure you're right.

Again, this whole thread is an illustration of why MN (generally speaking) is not a welcoming place for trans people.

To me, the real feminism on MN happens in places like the Relationships threads, where women are giving one another real-life support. In the FWR threads, not so much. Because there only one form of feminism seems to be accepted. And if you disagree with the majority view, you're labelled anti-feminist.

It's a shame.

@poetryandwine I appreciate your scientific citations.

When I say that I want tolerance, I mean it. I see women on MN pouring so much energy into attacking other women who disagree with them. And even though trans-inclusivity is an absolutely central tenet of feminism for me, I don't see it as helpful to belittle other feminists, regardless of how much I disagree with their views.

Instead of directing hate speech at each other, we could all be acting as allies to fight the toxic Andrew Tate/Trump-style patriarchy that is currently threatening our world.

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Instead of directing hate speech at each other, we could all be acting as allies to fight the toxic Andrew Tate/Trump-style patriarchy that is currently threatening our world.

How many threads have you started about Tate? If you think he should be the focus for women’s anger.

TheKeatingFive · 19/04/2025 07:17

For the umpteenth time, correctly acknowledging someone's sex is not 'hate speech'. It is a statement of fact.

Nameychangington · 19/04/2025 07:30

I hope any lurkers on the thread have noted how PP have dismissed the completely avoidable state-sanctioned misogynist abuse of women in prison that is locking them up with men. Being locked in a cell with a man is ok if there's only a 43% chance he's a convicted sex offender apparently - even though that poster acknowledged the pathetic conviction rates for sex crimes, she still thinks it's ok to lock some of the most vulnerable women in society in a room with men.

On the other hand, calling a man who just admitted to the crime of sex by deception a man is deeply deeply hurtful and unacceptable.

Forget sound bites about Trump or Tate for a minute, and have a look at this male supremacist movement.

TheKeatingFive · 19/04/2025 07:45

On the other hand, calling a man who just admitted to the crime of sex by deception a man is deeply deeply hurtful and unacceptable.

And while is going on, no references to this kind of thing either I notice.

terfisaslur.com

IridescentRainbow · 19/04/2025 07:57

Nameychangington · 19/04/2025 07:30

I hope any lurkers on the thread have noted how PP have dismissed the completely avoidable state-sanctioned misogynist abuse of women in prison that is locking them up with men. Being locked in a cell with a man is ok if there's only a 43% chance he's a convicted sex offender apparently - even though that poster acknowledged the pathetic conviction rates for sex crimes, she still thinks it's ok to lock some of the most vulnerable women in society in a room with men.

On the other hand, calling a man who just admitted to the crime of sex by deception a man is deeply deeply hurtful and unacceptable.

Forget sound bites about Trump or Tate for a minute, and have a look at this male supremacist movement.

I cried when I heard the news precisely for this reason. I am appalled at the thought of any woman being subjected to this.
It seems to me that women who are afraid of men pretending to be women and going into toilets in order to sexually assault women have a problem with men, not transgender women.
In the local shops here we have toilets that can be used by men or women. You walk into a corridor and then choose a cubicle. Just the same as in the ladies in the next town, except while you wait for a vacant cubicle you’re waiting with men. I have never heard of a man assaulting a woman in there.
If you’re anti trans, where is your compassion? Don’t all people deserve equal respect?

Nameychangington · 19/04/2025 08:02

IridescentRainbow · 19/04/2025 07:57

I cried when I heard the news precisely for this reason. I am appalled at the thought of any woman being subjected to this.
It seems to me that women who are afraid of men pretending to be women and going into toilets in order to sexually assault women have a problem with men, not transgender women.
In the local shops here we have toilets that can be used by men or women. You walk into a corridor and then choose a cubicle. Just the same as in the ladies in the next town, except while you wait for a vacant cubicle you’re waiting with men. I have never heard of a man assaulting a woman in there.
If you’re anti trans, where is your compassion? Don’t all people deserve equal respect?

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What is the difference between 'transgender women' and men?

MereNoelle · 19/04/2025 08:12

IridescentRainbow · 19/04/2025 07:57

I cried when I heard the news precisely for this reason. I am appalled at the thought of any woman being subjected to this.
It seems to me that women who are afraid of men pretending to be women and going into toilets in order to sexually assault women have a problem with men, not transgender women.
In the local shops here we have toilets that can be used by men or women. You walk into a corridor and then choose a cubicle. Just the same as in the ladies in the next town, except while you wait for a vacant cubicle you’re waiting with men. I have never heard of a man assaulting a woman in there.
If you’re anti trans, where is your compassion? Don’t all people deserve equal respect?

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I have plenty of respect and compassion for trans people. I still don’t want to share my female spaces (and that doesn’t just mean toilets, have you read some of the posts from women in this thread who have been forced to accept men into support groups about rape/sexual violence?) with men.
Yes, my problem is with men. Trans women are men.

BundleBoogie · 19/04/2025 08:13

poetryandwine · 18/04/2025 23:57

I hope those on this thread concerned about the rights of all will watch the C4 clip. The barrister Samantha was soft spoken and polite.

Watch and see for yourself

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I did watch it. He spent a lot of time talking over Maya and not listening. His male voice wasn’t as booming as others are - I’ll give you that, but it is unmistakably male.

Maybe you are so conditioned to being talked over by men you didn’t notice it?