I have moved out with eldest daughter due to the way my wife treats her.

[George805]

Hi, I am looking for some advice regarding my wife's treatment of eldest daughter.

Two daughters 8 and 6, eldest is a bit of an old soul, loves fossils, history, animals and cares deeply about the planet, she likes to wear t shirts with fossils and bugs on them with jeans and trainers, not interested in latest fashion or trends.

I love my wife but she can be a bit snobby and judgmental at times, she has to follow the latest trends and is in to everything glamorous, youngest daughter is the same, loves fashion, makeup (big no for me as she's too young) she is naturally very talented, does dance and can sing really well, I love both my children equally but I have to be truthful and say that I see a bit of a mean streak in youngest and I'm worried she is growing in to a bit of a bully.

Now the issue is that my wife massively favours youngest daughter, brings her everywhere, constantly buying her things, always calling her the most beautiful girl in the world (whilst eldest is standing right next to her), phone is full of pictures of just her, never stops speaking about her, always got to be right next to her on the sofa/dinner table etc etc

I've pulled her up on this so many times, told her she never spends time with eldest, never compliments her or shows even the slightest interest in what she's doing.

Had a horrible day at work today so stopped off in town on my way home to buy some snacks and treat the girls to a jellycat each, I bought eldest a caterpillar and youngest a bunny, when I arrived home and gave them to the girls my wife was instantly all over the youngest telling her how beautiful her bunny was just like her and didn't say anything about eldest. Eldest left and I went and spoke to her, she asked if I'd change her caterpillar for a bunny, I was shocked as I know for a fact she doesn't like the bunnies, she likes birds and bugs, what she said next floored me and made me feel like I've really failed her, she said mummy would like her the same way she likes her sister if she got a bunny, she got really upset and said she knows she's ugly and that's why eveyone likes youngest better.

I took both girls across the road to the neighbours and went back home and had the biggest argument with my wife we've ever had in 10 years of marriage, I'm not proud of it but I really lost my cool and accused my wife of neglecting eldest daughter and told her she's causing her to have body issues etc by the way she treats her, in the heat of the moment I packed a bag for myself and eldest and moved out.

But I've now had time to cool down and I realise I don't want to go back, I don't want my eldest to have to live everyday being compared to her sister and not feeling loved, living in her sisters shadow constantly having to hear how beautiful and amazing she is.

My wife has phoned over 20 times and left numerous texts and voicemails, I can't bring mysel to reply yet. I don't think it's good for eldest to be around her mother from now on until she can learn to treat them the same, I want eldest to live with me and youngest to spend half the time with me.

I know it's likely an unusual situation but would I stand a chance with this in court? I'm really worried about the way eldest is talking about herself and I think I'm going to need to get her some professional help, I obviously don't want her to never see her mum again, I just want her to have a brake from having to deal with her behaviour and for wife to slowly one on one build a relationship up with her without comparing her to youngest.

And you’re one of those people who takes what’s written and makes up their own stories to fit their own agenda

Oh, the irony!!!

Whereas OP's wife is not a good mother. She knowingly and openly favours one daughter over the other, has no care for the eldest's feelings, wants a "mini-me" rather than an authentic relationship with either daughter, and does not make any attempt to do otherwise despite the obvious harm she is doing. She is cruel and possibly deluded about her motivations, possibly not but doesn't care.
If attempts at therapy fail, I hope you get custody of both children, OP, and contact with their mother is then carefully supervised as she does so much harm.

My heart sank when I read your OP. You are an amazing dad

I think OP has done the right thing in the short term but that what to do in the long term is much more complicated.
The younger child's development is going to be compromised if the mother becomes over enmeshed with her and continues to mould her into a mini-me.
The older daughter whilst being helped by the way in which OP has stood up for her will be affected if she has very little future contact with her mother.
I think OP needs a lot of professional advice on how to best meet their emotional needs going forward.
I hope the mother has some capacity for self reflection and ability to modify her behaviour. If not OP can only mitigate the damage-he can't completely avoid it.

He posted that he did in his opening post. Didn't you read it?

The child you’re referring to as a bully is 6 years old

‘Might have a narcissistic personality style’ is not a diagnosis. It’s a heads up that he might not be dealing with someone who can self-reflect and maintain an empathic stance.

If he then looks into it and doesn’t fit then fine. If he does and she fits the bill he can avoid wasting a whole load of time, money and energy trying to get her to change.

As someone who has had to protect her DC from an emotionally abusive father with a NPS I can say with 100% clarity that knowing this earlier would have been massively protective for me and DC and my self esteem and physical health wouldn’t have been so diminished. So I don’t care if this abusive woman isn’t and I have got it wrong, I would rather the OP have the chance of checking it out at least.

The child you’re referring to as a bully is 6 years old.
Some 6 y.o children are bullies. My youngest Dsis was a bully from aged 2/3, she is still a forceful adult.

And?

Your eldest daughter was at risk of emotional damage, so I agree with you leaving with her. It will be important to get her counselling and also to ensure you both continue to have a strong relationship with her sister. You should hopefully be able to foster a better dynamic between you all, including your wife.

Lots of mums come on here and describe other 6 year olds picking on their children as bullies. Do you jump on them too?

Good. It's not about you.

In your OP you say your DD says "she knows she's ugly and that's why everyone likes youngest better". Who is she referring to here, just her DM or are there others? I think it would be important to unpick that with her.
This scenario seems to have escalated to a point where its not salvageable. While I admire your strong support for your DD from this type of mental abuse, how and why did it get to this point? Did you try to address it previously and just couldn't get through to DP? If so, could how you approached this specific situation be influenced by how you personally feel towards your wife? My only concern is that extracting your DD in this manor just hammers home that point to her that her DM doesn't love her and she may withdraw completely. Would a softer approach be more beneficial for both DD and DM long term?

Superb advice - definitely the best on here.

Although your horrible wife won’t admit it but she knows she’s done very wrong here, that’s why she wants you back. She won’t change though, & neither will your daughter while she’s being encouraged by your wife. Seek legal advice before deciding what to do next. I hope you do get custody of your daughter.

Just as ironic as saying it’s fine calling out 6 year old bullies by posting ‘look here everyone at this poster, bet her kids are awful’. Guess there’s a lot of it going around.

@George805

I think you need to understand that by 'favouriting' your younger DD to the extent it appears she is, your wife is doing just as much damage to her as she is in ignoring your eldest. It is never good to treat one child so differently than another, whether it's the golden child or the 'other one'. Golden children often struggle because the world won't treat them the way their parent has 'taught' them that they should be treated. And they don't know how to form healthy, equal relationships because they've been taught to believe their needs are more important than other people's are. And this mindset is very, very hard to 'break'.

So you need to not only try to help your eldest, you need to help your youngest, too. Even to the extent of asking for fully residency if need be. Your best plan is to pursue counseling for yourself and to get expert help in how to break this 'cycle' that has been created for both your children.

You've done the loving, right and courageous thing

I think she just wants her kids to be exactly like her, she loves dressing youngest up to match her and seems so confused that she could possibly have a child that doesn't enjoy that

Ugh. Seems so wrong. She's six. What is your wife's reasoning for the adult clothes and makeup? If there isn't one, I'd be concerned this is the start of grooming and this child will end up pushed into sexual activity at far too young an age, and that her decisions and choices won't fully be her own. Due to her desire to please her mother and get attention from her. Not only from the perspective of teaching DD that her appearance is the only thing she's valued for. I can well imagine this sort of mother relishing girly gossiping sessions about boy-drama and dating, over-sharing her own side of things too, as if DD were her adult friend and not her child.

Well done OP in taking action. Unfortunately some of the women here can't seem to understand where you have shared that you DID speak to your DP about this several times before and there has been no change. Also the constant undermining of your discipline to the youngest because she's the golden child is a big no. What really broke me is that even after you've left your wife didn't even care to ask how your eldest DD is doing or even say sorry like wth! Does she even miss her at all?? Your youngest also needs help too through this. When you get time with her you will be able to help her build a healthy bond with her older sister and undo the harmful things she has learnt from her mother. Professional advice is key here and I would be curious to see what your wife's parents think and how they treat both granddaughters.

Pretty sure that’s ChatGPT advice.

A few things:

1. those pointing out that the OP’s treatment of his second daughter is different aren’t saying he’s a bad parent but saying if he doesn’t resolve his different treatment of the daughters he risks damaging the girls
2. of course a six year old can be a bully; I think what many object to is the possible inference that some are drawing that OP is treating that six year old as if she can’t be taught better. Of course she can! She is not past redemption and it as much his job to do that teaching as it is to protect the elder.
3. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to question why the extreme response now when earlier attempts to manage the favouritism had - by OP’s own admission - failed. There seems from what the OP has said no ramping up just “don’t do that, don’t do that”, no result - boom “you can’t see your daughter”. Questioning that is not misandry. Equally, I don’t think it’s unreasonable of the OP not to set out in detail all he’s previously done and how it failed - so don’t think anyone’s unreasonable there.
4. I cannot imagine leaving any of my children with a parent that I considered a danger to one of them. So I do question that. The OP’s free to ignore that and I’m free to consider his explanations inadequate. But he’s not obliged to give one and that’s fair enough.

The OP has never said she can't see her daughter! She didn't even ask about her.

The OP has just declined to move the daughter back to the household.

Fair point - but if you replace “can’t see her” with “moving her out of the family home” my post stands

But actually I read “she will need to fight me for access” as the OP will seek to prevent his wife seeing the eldest