I have moved out with eldest daughter due to the way my wife treats her.

[George805]

Hi, I am looking for some advice regarding my wife's treatment of eldest daughter.

Two daughters 8 and 6, eldest is a bit of an old soul, loves fossils, history, animals and cares deeply about the planet, she likes to wear t shirts with fossils and bugs on them with jeans and trainers, not interested in latest fashion or trends.

I love my wife but she can be a bit snobby and judgmental at times, she has to follow the latest trends and is in to everything glamorous, youngest daughter is the same, loves fashion, makeup (big no for me as she's too young) she is naturally very talented, does dance and can sing really well, I love both my children equally but I have to be truthful and say that I see a bit of a mean streak in youngest and I'm worried she is growing in to a bit of a bully.

Now the issue is that my wife massively favours youngest daughter, brings her everywhere, constantly buying her things, always calling her the most beautiful girl in the world (whilst eldest is standing right next to her), phone is full of pictures of just her, never stops speaking about her, always got to be right next to her on the sofa/dinner table etc etc

I've pulled her up on this so many times, told her she never spends time with eldest, never compliments her or shows even the slightest interest in what she's doing.

Had a horrible day at work today so stopped off in town on my way home to buy some snacks and treat the girls to a jellycat each, I bought eldest a caterpillar and youngest a bunny, when I arrived home and gave them to the girls my wife was instantly all over the youngest telling her how beautiful her bunny was just like her and didn't say anything about eldest. Eldest left and I went and spoke to her, she asked if I'd change her caterpillar for a bunny, I was shocked as I know for a fact she doesn't like the bunnies, she likes birds and bugs, what she said next floored me and made me feel like I've really failed her, she said mummy would like her the same way she likes her sister if she got a bunny, she got really upset and said she knows she's ugly and that's why eveyone likes youngest better.

I took both girls across the road to the neighbours and went back home and had the biggest argument with my wife we've ever had in 10 years of marriage, I'm not proud of it but I really lost my cool and accused my wife of neglecting eldest daughter and told her she's causing her to have body issues etc by the way she treats her, in the heat of the moment I packed a bag for myself and eldest and moved out.

But I've now had time to cool down and I realise I don't want to go back, I don't want my eldest to have to live everyday being compared to her sister and not feeling loved, living in her sisters shadow constantly having to hear how beautiful and amazing she is.

My wife has phoned over 20 times and left numerous texts and voicemails, I can't bring mysel to reply yet. I don't think it's good for eldest to be around her mother from now on until she can learn to treat them the same, I want eldest to live with me and youngest to spend half the time with me.

I know it's likely an unusual situation but would I stand a chance with this in court? I'm really worried about the way eldest is talking about herself and I think I'm going to need to get her some professional help, I obviously don't want her to never see her mum again, I just want her to have a brake from having to deal with her behaviour and for wife to slowly one on one build a relationship up with her without comparing her to youngest.

Still completely missing the point. For a site that throws the term narcissist around like their favourite hot potato, when a thread has someone actually showing real traits people are being extremely dense and defensive about the behaviour.

A narcissist’s primary victim will always be the one they say they love the most. Everyone else they hurt to keep that person to themselves is collateral damage. It’s especially shit when it’s children being emotionally played off each other but this idea that the youngest is fine because mum likes her is completely wrong. The youngest is being thrown to the wolves at age 6 simply because someone who is known to be emotionally abusive has picked her as ‘special’. How are posters not seeing it is beyond me.

What your eldest needs most is NOT to be separated from her mother and sister.
She needs her mother to drastically improve her way of communicating with her. She needs to live with a mother who shows her love and affection, and with her sister whom she also loves.
There is nothing to be lost in trying to remedy your wife's approach until she gets it right. I would be communicating with your wife and getting her to enrol ASAP in a parenting class and counselling about her attitude. Make it a provision for you moving back.

The sooner the better because your daughter needs to feel that any change is totally about how her own mother chose to improve because of her love for her. An apology from her mother, or any improvement, will not come across as genuine if DD thinks you pressured her mother into it.
Now is not the time to be selfish and focus on a divorce - that would mean sheer chaos for DD1. She could feel to blame. You need to be in the household, helping things improve over the next few years.

Only after a decent attempt to help your wife see sense would it be best for you to fragment the family. Realistically, how would an unreformed wife treat her eldest DD if you forced a divorce on wife? Wife would be all over the place and not capable of learning new tricks. How would both girls feel about you? How would it be in their best interest?

I think you need to tread really carefully. Today it may be that you left because of your wife’s treatment of your daughter. But in the build up to today what has been done to change it? I’m wondering if that’s what a court will ask. It seems like you have done a huge u turn on your lives in the space of an argument. Be careful that your 8 year old may not agree once she forgets some of the conversations in a year or so if it goes to court. I completely understand you protecting her but banning your wife from complete contact may make you look bad in the eyes of court. Could you consider family therapy? But also a solicitor asap.

brought tears to my eyes what your eldest said

you did the right thing.
perhaps try family therapy and live separately for now until you see if there is improvement

Calling a six year old a bully as her father is pretty despicable. Blaming your wife for her behaviour yet you’ve painted yourself as a fully involved father up to now, so which is it? Surely as an equal parent of two children it is both your responsibilities of how your children develop. Every post you make is about how you push your eldest to be herself, yet your 6 year olds version of herself is so unacceptable you won’t even have her around her sister.

Have you spoken to your youngest since driving off with a packed bag and her sister?

Great second step.

WOW!!! you don't let up do you, just do one, ffs

Yes I have spoken to my youngest, my wife on the other hand hasn't even asked after eldest. And yes I will call my youngest a bully because I'm not one of those parents who thinks their kids can do no wrong, I discipline youngest then wife goes and tells her it's all fine and don't listen to daddy, I will be able to better parent my youngest without my wife around to undermine me

Do you think his youngest daughter is lucky to have him?

What a measured response, no I will not ‘do one’. Posters like yourself have the fawning over ‘super dad’ in hand, some of us actually realise that 6 year old children are vulnerable as well even if they are a victim of favouritism. And they’re not bullies at that age, this behaviour is a full reflection of parenting in the home. From whichever parents are in the home.

I’m very sorry I didn’t realise that you were looking into counselling.
This must be a traumatic and difficult time for you all. There is a genuine groundswell of support for you on here in terms of your advocacy for your daughter. But there is also good advice on here about the longer term situation . I think counselling is really important here.
I wish you and your family the very best.

Super dad / super mum whichever,

And 6 year olds can't be bullies, yeah OK,

You are in danger of treating your youngest the same as how your wife is treating oldest. It’s very strong to call a six year old a bully. They well be testing boundaries because that’s what kids do developmentally at that age, but it is your responsibility as a parent to teach her how to treat people.

I think you are doing yourself and your kids no favours in the long run taking one and leaving one. You are not only rejecting one and favouring one but you are endangering their sibling relationship, the closest family relationship they will have. Either they will grow up despising each other or in the future they will come to mourn what you have taken away from them and possibly resent your actions. If you believe your wife is neglectful and emotionally abusive then it is your duty as a parent to take both.

Does your oldest naturally like what you have described or is she trying to please you? Did your wife have PND worth your oldest as that can sometimes affect bonding and maybe it would be positive for all of you to do family counselling even if you are leaving the family.

I was like your eldest. I loved going nature spotting with my dad, crossing things off in identification books and learning about all the various types of fungi. He introduced me to a world I could always lose myself in, wherever I was and whatever might happen - a true gift.

My mother resented me for it. She hated the attention he gave me and saw me as a threat. She couldn’t compete because she had no interest in these things. She was awful to me.

Is it possible your wife is jealous?

Ignore pp obsessing over lesser parenting of your youngest, they’re getting so ahead of themselves they’ve practically mapped out their version of your future for you. I wish I’d had a dad like you to remove me from my mothers abuse at that age. I wish you and your daughters well.

I'm sorry to hear this. I don't believe she's jealous, I'm not particularly outdoorsy myself, never showed an interest in bugs or fossils but once my eldest started showing an interest I made the effort to get involved, learn and take her out to do these things, my wife has always had the choice to get involved and come along but she chooses not to, I think she just wants her kids to be exactly like her, she loves dressing youngest up to match her and seems so confused that she could possibly have a child that doesn't enjoy that

You are in danger of treating your youngest the same as how your wife is treating oldest. It’s very strong to call a six year old a bully. They well be testing boundaries because that’s what kids do developmentally at that age, but it is your responsibility as a parent to teach her how to treat people.

How patronising. The OP already knows this. He's literally said he recognises it and has tried to deal with it only to be undermined by his wife.

Parental rights are not a thing. You also mention 50/50 as a baseline - I’ve worked in private law family proceedings for eight years and I see very few 50/50 court orders, as often by the time things come to court there are significant issues making equal coparenting very difficult for the children. I doubt you see many private law cases working for the LA.

I do agree that OP should at least say where he and the child are, but disagree that he has no legal right to keep her there or that the police would be interested, based on what the OP has said.

Your wife sounds vacuous and just wants a daughter who is an extension of herself

What a sad situation OP. Poor 6yo too, it sounds like meanness to Dsis is encouraged by Mum. She isn't a bully, just a little kid who knows no better. I think family therapy would really help, it sounds like your wife really has issues. If she wasn't like this before kids there might be something to work on and she might change. There is hope. Or you might need to separate and do a joint custody arrangement, I think siblings should stay together but you might get an additional night one to one with eldest. I don't know. I wonder is there any love left between you at all, could you keep the marriage and family together? Whatever happens I wish you and both little girls the best.

OP, I have huge sympathy for you. My ex also decided to emotionally abandon dd1 and focus all her love on dd2. It was so shocking and cruel to witness. For a long time, I tried to fix it. Then I was in a quandary of, "dd1 needs me to leave, but dd2 needs me to stay". Then eventually I realised that dd2 was being hurt too, not least by undermining her relationship with her sister.

I think it might be worth self-referring to CAMHS for your dd2, for advice on how you can support her. Also see if the NHS provides family therapy - I was lucky enough to get this and it was v good, really showed me that the only option was out. Also, there is probably a family support team at your local social services - this is NOT the same as child protection team. Mine held meetings with the school to get support for both girls, and also recommended actions for us as a family (she also muttered to me, "I'm not supposed to say this, but get the hell out").

I'm not saying all these options will be right for you, but I think they have these advantages:

• they show your wife how serious you are
• you show whoever is going to be adjudicating custody arrangements that you are a thoughtful and responsible parent
• you shine a light on what has been going on, inviting people in who your wife may listen to
• you get advice on how best to support both your dds, and maybe some direct support for them as well.

Incidentally, my dds have now lived just with me for five years, and their relationship has really healed.

Is your wife the eldest sibling in her birth family?

I sympathise and a bit of space is useful but I also don't think it's healthy or right for you to stop your wife seeing your DD1.

OP, I do think one thing you need to be very mindful of is that the siblings being separated, long term, is not a realistic outcome so, while I think you've done the right thing removing your eldest tonight, I think you're likely going to need to have them under the same roof (wherever tbat might be) again in the coming days.

That said, while the above is my hunch, I think you should be looking to get some urgent legal advice, to best inform your going-forward approach, to best enable you to achieve the best-possible end result for your daughters. Actions now, even if they feel objectively right, could end up working against you if this becomes a court matter.

That’s brilliant to hear . Your daughters are lucky to have you. ( and I’m sure you feel the same way about them)

Your not really funny… quite lame actually