To think people who stay in abusive relationships long-term and expose their kids to it are complicit in harming them?

[WildHazelCritic]

We all say “they need support” and they do but if someone stays with an abuser for years while their kids witness the chaos, doesn’t that cross into neglect? AIBU to think sympathy has limits?

It’s something we’ve raised with our mum, who stayed with our alcoholic abusive father until he left her when I was 20.

Especially as we feel it was done mostly due to finances (he’s very rich and we lived in a large, and very unique stunning house) and ‘what would the neighbours think’ attitude - both of which should have come after our safety and wellbeing.

So yeah, whilst I feel dreadfully sorry for any parent being abused - they need to put kids first!

Read "Nesting" by Roisin O Donnell

Leaving isn't easy

Have you ever tried leaving an abusive relationship? If not. I’m not sure you understand how everything including our court system is against you from the second you leave. If it was easy I am sure people would leave sooner.

I thank goodness I've never been in that situation, but it doesn't take too much imagination to envisage that sometimes the devil you know may seem potentially the lesser evil, not least for your children. Frustrating and unfathomable as it can seem to those not living it.

The problem is that it can take abused women many years to realise and accept that they are being abused. It’s really not that easy.

Well yes I suppose it does, otherwise social services wouldn’t become involved with families due to domestic abuse, and failure to protect wouldn’t be a thing.

I’m not saying it’s easy to leave though.

Legally it is emotional abuse and their children cam be removed from their care. Many children are removed from their mother due to the mother being the victim of domestic abuse. I feel for mothers in that situation but the children do need to come first.

I often wonder why on earth my Mum thought it was a good idea to bring a child into an abusive relationship. I have very clear memories of DV and she split from my Dad before I was 5.

This is incredibly naive, one of the first things an abuser does is brainwash their victim into thinking that any alternative to staying with them would be worse and if they even tried it, they would burn the world to track them down and kill them. Once kids come along, the kids become hostages that further keep the victim trapped with the abuser.

So you can know you are being abused with 100% certainty, but be too afraid to try and escape.

I have left an abusive relationship before so I do understand how incredibly difficult and complex it can be. My comment wasn’t meant to dismiss anyone’s experience but to share a perspective that’s often overlooked. It’s never simple and I completely agree that the system can make things harder but I also believe we need to talk honestly about the emotional and structural barriers so people can be better supported to leave.

I think it’s complex but I agree, and so does the law. It counts as neglect. It’s hard because it is “blaming the victim” but protecting your dc is a responsibility that doesn’t get removed because of a difficult situation.

We were supporting a friend to leave her abusive partner a few years ago. It was so upsetting to see her refuse everyone’s help and stayed. The thing that made her stay was the fact that she felt she could protect the children more if she stayed. Because if she left her partner would have access to those dc without her being there to protect them from his temper.

he was a police officer she didn’t feel she would be believed.

she did leave once the dc were older. But the dc are very scarred by their childhood. But I suppose the sane could if happened if she’d left with them and the partner had free rein to terrorise them alone.

I think most women, if not all are just trying to do what’s best at the time.

I started a thread last week, talking about my friend who was in an abusive relationship. I spent 8 years supporting her and helping her get out of an abusive marriage where she had 2 girls with him, even getting her a house to escape to. She asked for all this help. I ended the friendship when one day she met me for lunch and said I was pressuring her to leave a marriage she was fine in, she never asked for help (a blatant lie evidenced by her many texts to me) and she was telling me to stop “helping” her, she didn’t need help.

I got absolutely flamed on the thread. I was told that she wasn’t gaslighting me and basically women who are victims of abuse can’t gaslight and if they do bad things it’s because they’re being abused. And that they have no agency or power to make decisions, and so they cannot be held to account for poor behaviour

I asked if this meant they can’t gaslight their own children and that when they keep their children in an abusive home, how do children cope with living with an abuser and someone who couldn’t protect them enough? How do they cope as adults?

I didn’t get an answer.

You have to remember that if you leave, then they are going to have the children on their own in all likelihood. And if they’ve abused the mother, it’s very common they’ll keep doing it via the kids or abuse the kids too. So sometimes it could be better (or seem better at least) to stay to protect the kids or at least wait til they’re older.

So I think you are being unreasonable to heap more blame on one of the victims in this case.

But edited to add of course it’s damaging for the kids and there’s obviously cases where leaving asap is imperative.

Yes totally, this can be why ss remove children. Even from birth.its extremely sad

I have a friend who is a child protection social worker. She has told me that I’d be amazed at the number of women who stay with violent men despite being told in clear terms “You WILL lose your children”. Even scarier - they stay with convicted pedophiles.

MN has a tendency to infantilise women and make out only men are at fault in any given situation but the stark truth is some mothers are just selfish and weak. There is no excuse to have your child living with a pedophile

Speaking from experience it’s so much nicer to have a non-abusive home to be in some/most of the time as opposed to ALWAYS living in an abusive home

It's not that easy.

You stay and the abuse is directed at you, you leave and he gets access to the kids alone and its directed at them.

Loads of women don’t realise they are being abused. They’re brainwashed to believe they are the problem, they are triggering the abuse.

Obviously children should be prioritised but the head fuck consequences can mean that their mother simply doesn’t realise how much they are being harmed.

Yes that’s true. I know that from experience. But also know how petrifying it was to be left with someone without my mum there to defend me

I don’t know OP, it does feel quite victim blaming, and it certainly is a tool for an abuser to wield against a victim. It also diverts attention away from the actual problem.

It is a few years ago now that I left, and it took me years before that to ratchet up the courage - I genuinely believe my life, and those of the people who helped me were in danger at that time.
I have been accused by my kids both for staying and for leaving, so as always, there is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t. In particular, the lowering of the standard of living is held against me, and in some ways my children continue to abuse me as their father did.

I personally am really pleased we now have these words in common vernacular -

Narcissistic
Personality disordered
Coercion
Gaslighting
DARVO

Because people live with this and have no idea what's happening to them. Abuse can continue like this for years with victims believing they are the problem. If you have a very skilled manipulator who convinces others how great they are, what psychological chances do some women have!

We need to keep having conversations about the above. We need to educate, educate, educate regarding tactics men will use to capture and love bomb. We need better systems in the Police and justice system to help women even begin to realise they're in an abusive relationship. We need women to feel safe if they do go to the Police. Sometimes, women must feel safer not leaving. I truly believe that.

Sometimes, no one outside the home will ever believe it.

It's a poor example but look how many people still believe Michael Jackson and accuse a number of child abuse victims of lying about him.

It is highly complex. Yes children get neglected when their mother remains in an abusive relationship, without a doubt. This is a huge skill and tension for social workers working in this area, how to support and care for women in these situations, to locate the blame with the abuser, but to hold both parents accountable for the impact on their children and be clear when women are unable to protect. Sometimes the system can feel quite punitive of mums, when it’s the men causing the problem. But ultimately the children’s needs come first no matter what.

We need a great deal more support available for families, sadly often what happens is agencies swooping in to manage a crisis when well invested in services could have addressed the problem at a far earlier stage. So we could say our govt neglect children by chronic underfunding of sw and related services - as a society we don’t do enough to address male violence against women - we have an epidemic of abusive men - and yes women too need to take responsibility for the impact on their kids when they stay. So many layers.

I don't disagree, it's both parents' responsibility to protect their children. But, conversely, when someone is being abused it's not that easy to just leave. It's a very complicated issue and it's not as simple as saying you should have protected your kids. Some people just aren't capable of leaving and that's not necessarily their fault.

It took me a long time to leave because I knew he would get 50:50 residency and I couldn’t bear the thought of my children alone with him without my protection. People seem to assume that you just take the kids and go. My mum said to me ‘he’s only saying he wants 50:50 to hurt you, he’ll soon drop them when reality sets in’. Not so. He still has them half the time but at least now they’re old enough to have mobile phones and can call me if they’re frightened.