To think people who stay in abusive relationships long-term and expose their kids to it are complicit in harming them?

[WildHazelCritic]

We all say “they need support” and they do but if someone stays with an abuser for years while their kids witness the chaos, doesn’t that cross into neglect? AIBU to think sympathy has limits?

Given that my ex was incredibly middle class high end profession he convinced me that he would fight to have the children full time, and that he would totally discredit me, to make sure that happened. He is almost certainly psychopathic so I have no doubt that he would have done that (and believe me he has tried to get me arrested on several occasions since I left so that he could take the kids using totally fabricated accounts). I had to wait to leave until I could be sure that the children were old enough to have their view taken into account. That is the only way that I could be sure he wouldn't get them full time.
If he had them full time I am fairly certain they would be dead by now. So sometimes it isn't as easy as, just leave, else you are complicit.

but to share a perspective that’s often overlooked

it’s one of the most common, pedestrian, rent-an-opinions out there. Along with people on benefits should just stop being so lazy and get a job. Etc.

If there was a burning house children had to repeatedly enter, would you intermittently put the children inside alone and hope they were OK, or try to stay with them while inside to keep them safe?
When abuse isn't only directed at the woman but also the children it is much more complex than "just leave" with how the court system prioritises contact and how hard abuse is to prove given the nature of it happening behind closed doors.
The solution is a much lower threshold for supervised contact, but unfortunately the standard is often a few weeks of an hour and then signed off as unsupervised based on those supervised snapshots.

But why keep on having children with the person in the first place, the idea that someone is perfect saint either no red flags before the first child may excuse having one with an abuser but doesn't explain to keep on having them

It does not take a university degree to know if you have a child with someone there will be more a chance they remain in the child/ren life after you split, so if they are that abusive use more forms of contraception or stop having sex

People put their own needs before the children they decide to have and 'I want a baby' seems to come before any logical thought

Yet we alo hear men need to 'step up' why on earth do mothers want fathers to step up if they choose to have one or some with an unsuitable father in the first place?

It's common for abuse to start in pregnancy, and also common for abused children to become abused women. Things which we would recognise as red flags won't necessarily seem at all abnormal to some women depending on what they have experienced in life.

The thing about domestic abuse is it increases over time and it is process of wearing-down and entrapment that is tailored to the victim. Perpetrators are learning how to push the buttons of their victim and are also learning how to groom them and convince them that there isn't a problem, or that the victim the cause of the problem. Abuse is more sophisticated than most people imagine. Also it would be helpful if there was more understanding that a lot of perpetrators are very good at manipulating - not just their unfortunate victim but friends, family, teachers, lawyers, social workers and judges. If they ramped abuse up suddenly it would be easier for victims to leave but the goal is to keep and control family members. So perpetrators will treat the victim well at times and undermine the victim's self-esteem and confidence as well as isolate them so it is hard for the victim to trust their own thoughts. This is likely going along while a woman is having babies and then the abuse only really ramps up once the children have grown up a bit and perhaps the woman is a SAHM and financially very dependent at this point. Add to this a society that encourages women to question themselves and the tendency of people to invalidate women if they "bitch and moan" or be too critical or "demanding" of their man.

Domestic abusers, the majority of which use coercive control, use psychological warfare to dominate and frighten their partners. Tactics used by domestic abuse perpetrators are the same that have been used in war as means of psychologically brainwashing prisoners of war - and were seen to be very successful at doing so (eg prisoners who defected from the country they were fighting for!) You can read Jess Hill's excellent book "See What You Made Me Do" to gain a better understanding.

Also this podcast on Spotify, "The Trap" is an excellent off-shoot of the book.

open.spotify.com/show/42HlLwWwqtP3IheBgmJjnW?si=fL7tQOJ-RMW-XgcyK-TCUw