To think people who stay in abusive relationships long-term and expose their kids to it are complicit in harming them?

[WildHazelCritic]

We all say “they need support” and they do but if someone stays with an abuser for years while their kids witness the chaos, doesn’t that cross into neglect? AIBU to think sympathy has limits?

100%, I was that child. My relationship with my mother is surface level good but I'm still upset about my childhood due to her staying. I of course followed the same pattern but left when my daughter was 2 years old and realised I was living my mums life and didn't want the same for my DD that I had. It was hard but I think some don't leave as they don't want to sacrifice life style - protecting my DD was my priority, living live walking on eggshells is not a life for a child.

I think it's true that some women have a price they'll sell their own safety and that of their kids for. A large home, a nice lifestyle. You see it on here - oh, but if I leave I will have to live in a smaller house, I will have to go back to work etc. Yes, sometimes the woman is a total victim. Sometimes she is absolutely complicit and has decided some things are easier to live with than others - sometimes that's the abuse she is all too aware of. Leaving is difficult for many reasons and sometimes that reason is because actually, she doesn't want to.

I fully agree. No, it is not easy to leave but as a parent you have a duty to safeguard your children.

I left an abusive relationship with a 22 month old and a 10 week old. It was the hardest thing I've done. They are now 10 and 8 and the harm it did to my oldest still impacts them. I left with no money, no housing, no support network. We were placed an hour away in a b&b, then an hour the other direction in a refuge.

I stand firm today that I am also complicit in the harm done to my oldest as I failed to safeguard her and I also know just how hard it is to leave.

I should also add that i was also once the child in the dynamic, left home at 18 and straight into that abusive relationship. The cycle is very real, I had absolutely no idea what a healthy relationship is. No idea how to spot flags. My own mental health was shot.

I still resent my mum for putting me through it for 9 years.

But how did leaving safeguard my children when cafcass continue to insist they spend time with their dad even when school have raised concerns? When they are charmed by his very middle class demeanor and won't see beyond that?

Leaving hasn't made them safer, it's left them at risk

I find it difficult to forgive my DM for staying with my Father (for nearly 50 years, until his death). The difference though is that I want to forgive her - he never deserved forgiveness.

I'm really glad you were able to leave safely op.

I've worked with women who were murdered for leaving. And children who were killed as revenge.

Preparing to leave is the time when women are most likely to be seriously harmed and I don't think it's fair to minimise that or to suggest that it's neglect if some women don't feel safe enough to do it.

Either way these types of posts are a race to the bottom. They criminalise victims for not behaving in a certain way, and it puts accountability on victims when the full accountability should be on the abuser.

Outside of rape i can't think of any other crimes or forms of abuse where we blame the victim for not being in control.

I remember your thread. I think you did the right thing. Why put yourself out there in terms of the mental load you took on if they won't leave?

This.

Maybe, instead of judging, we should be trying to understand the reasons why people stay in abusive relationships. This would help us develop and teach strategies to empower people to leave.

This is also a really valid point. There's a huge gap between the criminal system, the family courts system and social services and the community sector. All of these work in silos and there are lots of gaps where families end up in really difficult situations post separation. Obviously I'd advocate for any woman to leave, but I also can't say I'd judge them for being scared that that will mean they get away and their kids are forced to be there alone in future. Often it's a case of better the devil you know and feeling like you'd rather be there to protect them than risk not being able to.

I'd normally agree with the opening poster, but the more I read, the more I understand that the most dangerous time for a woman leaving an abusive man, is the time she chooses to go.

So what a decision an abused woman has to make. If I leave, I may well die and he may be left with care of the children, if the police don't recognise that he killed me. If the police do recognise that he killed me the children will have neither a mother not a father. But if I stay ...

and on it goes. Why do you think abusive men can be so keen to have children? Could it be that they know a woman will try to protect that child as best she can? Even if it means staying and taking the abuse, so the child doesn't have to?

I’m relieved to see the majority think YANBU. There’s a knee jerk reaction on here sometimes to
infantilise women and make out they have very little agency, but in my experience people do leave abusive relationships but only when THEY reach breaking point and usually their kids are far past it by then. My mum happily turned a blind eye to her partner abusing us, but found the strength to leave once SHE found it intolerable. She may be a victim but she’s a deeply selfish woman the two are not mutually exclusive.

I don’t think it’s blaming the victim but we, not unreasonably, expect people to help themselves. I lock my door, not because if I didn’t I would deserve to be burgled. But because it’s sensible to protect yourself.

YANBU and I'm typing this from hospital whilst awaiting the results of CT scan to check for facial fractures or brain bleed following my now ex partner besting me up.

I understand how hard it can be to leave but this is the first time he's hit me and it will never ever happen again. I'm ashamed my 14 year old was in the house when it happened but sadly it couldn't have been predicted. He just lost it because I caught HIM cheating and calmly asked him to leave 😭

I deserve better but so does my child. Never again.

Is it? Was this your experience? Did you ever feel manipulated? Also did you get a choice in the end where you could stay?

Sorry you never hear the actual children's experience, feels like we have to assume and make decisions for them in the dark x

It isn't easy to leave for some women in very abusive situations. I personally know of a couple of situations where she left and he went on to kill the children to punish her. The courts allowed access as they always bloody do! If you are leaving a dangerous man it needs proper planning and you need to go as far away as possible. Sometimes having the kids removed is safer for them as then the danger to the kids is removed if he can't use them against her. It's terrifying!

Nah. It’s easier just to blame the woman. We only tolerate it because we want a nice house. 🙄 So much for ‘sisterhood’.

And for the record, a nice house is still a prison when you don’t have a penny to your name. When you have to beg your jailer to buy your child a pack of socks and you’re using a torn up old sheet as a sanitary towel. Yet to outsiders I was living in relative luxury. Just fuck off.

Yes it was my experience.
I can’t express the terror of being in a household where abuse happens. The world feels like it’s ending.
To have respite somewhere else in a healthy household was like entering heaven
And yes I was manipulated. The next day after hearing abuse, to what your protector and parent downplaying it and making it out it wasn’t that bad was unbearable.
I couldn’t have coped if that was full time. I’d probably have ran away

It is a persistant myth that women can protect their children by leaving their abusive partner.

Leaving an "abusive relationship" does not necessarily stop the abuse of women and children because abuse is not a relationship issue - it is the actions of one person perpetrating abuse who will continue to do so after separation.

It is called "Post-separation Abuse" and the patterns have been documented and are familiar to those working in the field.

Look up the work of Dr Emma Katz.

Then who protects the children?

Good question!
Please let me know when you find out as it is certainly not the family court, child protection services or police in my experience.

Nor mine. The abusive man’s rights were privileged above his own small child’s. And it’s happening every single day

That analogy doesn’t transfer. Instead it’s like letting in a friend you think you know who treats you well, and then gradually turns on you but you don’t know it, you think you’re the crazy one, no one comes to visit etc and voila, you have actually let in your abuser and he’s locked the door behind you

Look at the hateful comments made toward single mothers on benefits (scrounger, lazy, shouldn't have had kids etc). Is there any wonder people who are extremely vulnerable, ground down and possibly out of work due to their abuser don't feel able to leave and get help?