Most shops are just landfill waiting to happen.

[SummerDaytoNight]

I mean, all are to a point, but I’m talking about the non essential ones.

Our society is engineering its own collapse. We only need food, health, house basics and clothing. And I suppose, technology.

Fast fashion could go. Housing should just be the essentials.

My friend took me into a shop called sostrene grene. It was lovely, but nothing was essential. Most shops are like that.

The horse has bolted, but I wish we could limit the unnecessarily stuff and just have the basics. Im not talking Amish level, but there’s no need for all this waste. It would be so much better if only the essentials were produced.

At the point of production, it’s already basically landfill.

Well it sort of is. It's why factory farming exists.
What many people regard as a 'fair' price is one which necessitates serious compromises in terms of quality, welfare (human and animal), and/or the environment.

Quite.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea How else do you propose that people on low incomes get "the size and design that they want" without compromising on quality or environmental standards? As shown by many of the replies on this thread, many people (actoss the income spectrum) would rather compromise on quality over quantity.

Agree completely. To preserve one person’s ’choice and dignity’, another person’s has to be compromised in the form of low wages.

There is nothing undignified or oppressive about buying second hand clothing, eating a simple and cheap but nutritious diet, or doing free enjoyable things.

Somebody posted in our town Facebook group earlier asking for free food as they ‘only have £20 left for the week’. Somebody responded with a practical list of things they could buy from the local supermarket which would stretch the £20 to last the week, they even priced each item. The OP had an absolute fit along the lines of ‘why should I live off potatoes?’. She seemed to think it was a genuine human right to live off fairly expensive convenience food and red meat.

I also feel 🙄 when I see benefit claimants on here saying ‘but why shouldn’t I buy new clothes? Why shouldn’t I have a holiday? Why shouldn’t my child get a new iPad for Christmas?’ - while demanding working people who can’t actually afford any of that for themselves pay more tax toward their welfare.

Did we really have to shoe horn benefit bashing into this thread? Is it a new national sport or something? 🙄

An ocean is made of drops.

Am I wrong?

Yup I love that shop. They have loads of paper instead of plastic type items. They’re probably pretty sustainable compared to most places.

Who do you think the ‘big businesses’ are catering to?

I also feel 🙄 when I see benefit claimants on here saying ‘but why shouldn’t I buy new clothes? Why shouldn’t I have a holiday? Why shouldn’t my child get a new iPad for Christmas?’ - while demanding working people who can’t actually afford any of that for themselves pay more tax toward their welfare

No need for that. Like I said in a PP, I shop in Primark as I know what fits and I can feel the fabric first. it is also cheap for something new, and I wear stuff until it falls apart. Whatever "fast fashion" is, is not something subscribe to. Yet I (and others on low income) are expected to have your cast offs and be happy with it. No thanks.

You're missing the point that end stage capitalism is a multi-faceted cluster fuck and the discussion is about how we address the worst aspects of consumerism without collapsing the economy.

You've picked on a particular class of consumer and had a dig at benefit claimants. Trust me, their income doesn't stretch to luxuries, and genuine wealth tax would help level the playing field for everyone. I also remind you that a number of those in receipt of benefits are working, and their wages need to be topped up to meet the ever rising costs of living because corporations are subsidised by the government, rather than paying living wages.

I know people like to think "benefit claimants" are the source of all societal ills, but blaming them for participating in capitalism is a bit of a stretch when it's the only system we've got.

Why do you think second hand clothing are ‘cast offs’? Do you generally sneer at people who buy things from charity shops or Vinted?

@XenoBitch

I suspect the poster you're responding to is not engaging in good faith.

@DramaDivaDi
@SonoPazziQuestiRomani

The expectation that a person on a low income should be able to dress themselves and their children in new clothing is not demanding a ‘right to shite’. There is a world of difference between someone with £200 to spend buying 20 items instead of 2 ethically produced items then someone who only has £20 to spend. Of course there will be a compromise on quality at that price but at least there is a choice then between new and second hand, rather than no choice.

It’s a lot easier to shop ethically when you have the funding to give you choices.

FWIW I am totally behind the ethical argument but I don’t like the assumption that everyone who buys cheaply does so because they lack consideration or morals.

No, not at all. I know some people who are totally addicted to shopping on Vinted, and I do look in charity shops for craft supplies or clothing that is made from a nice fabric that I can use in my crafts too.
But clothing wise, I live in black and grey and wear simple items. Primark meets my needs fine. I use cash and avoid online shopping as I also used to be very addicted to it, and I can not afford to be nowadays😅
I am more taking umbrage with the comment that people on benefits should not expect to buy anything new.

What is your occupation out of interest?

The majority of respected economists do not support a wealth tax for a number of very good reasons. It’s sixth form politics which would not deliver in reality.

Yes I agree we have reached the end stage of capitalism and it’s very ugly. It’s bred individualism and entitlement - virtually everyone feels entitled to take, take, take from the country, whether that’s benefits or cheap labour subsidised by the taxpayer, but very few people feel they have any obligation to give back.

The only way forward is radical change but nobody will want the reality of it, as the freebies will dry up and everyone would be expected to make an equal contribution. People are too selfish and want to delude themselves that socialism can work or that capitalism is the only fair way.

If you are on a low income isn’t it’s simply practical not to buy anything new when there have never been more second hand choices available?

I'm a scrounger, love.

And I think we've crossed paths frequently. A rose by any other name?

Hmm.

I never see anything in charity shops that fits my needs. I look a lot (my town is full of them).
I might be on a low income but I am allowed to be picky too.

If a wealth tax was remotely practical Labour would do it. They’re not, because it isn’t. I understand the desire to believe that there really is an easy solution ‘if only the political will was there’ but we are now in very complex waters and all low hanging fruit has been, or is being, picked.

It’s frustrating because these refrains are continually challenged on here yet pop up time and time again.

Surely your need is to be clothed?

Ok, so I can just wear a bin bag and that be ok? At least I will be covered up?
I am fine with my stuff from Primark. I know it fits, it is consistent, it is new. It meets my needs. They will always have black leggings and t-shirts.
Charity shops don't tend to sell Primark, and when they do they often overprice it.

For me it's about convenience.
If I needed a new plain t-shirt (like the previous poster) I could go to somewhere like Primark or Asda and be pretty much guaranteed to find one. In fact I usually do the stock check thing before I go.
One trip (so two bus journeys there and back) - and I've got what I need.
For buying at charity shops I would have to hope someone has donated something in my size. I can't guarantee that. I might have to go to several different shops. I might have to pay for more buses to get to them.
Buying online is easier obviously because it's delivered to me directly but that means going on trust from the seller that the size is correct and the material is ok. If it's not - then again I am inconvenienced because I would have to return it and will be both be out of money until a refund is given and still have no clothes item.
Or I just go to Primark or wherever....

I find charity shops rarely have tops in my size (22 - I have big boobs and shoulders).

Don’t be so ridiculous.

Primark is highly unethical. You seem to expect society to have a social conscience towards you, but don’t seem to think you need to show anyone else the same concern?

I would understand if this was 1998 and the only way of buying second hand was from charity shops but with Vinted and Marketplace, there‘s so much choice and very cheap.

You said it better. Is the same for me too.