To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

[Kanfuzed123]

Inspired by the childcare eating a £45k salary and the anti nursery sentiment from a few posters on there as being inferior for a child.

anyone else not feel in the slightest guilty that there kids are in nursery and have been post maternity leave?

yeah when they cried at drop off was rough and I called into the check out they were but that soon settled. They do lovely events for the parents and upload lots of amazing activities they do, they’ve made fantastic friends.

I could’ve reduced my hours but I didn’t, we could’ve maybe managed on one salary (glad we didn’t when rates shot up) but I went back FT when dc 1 was 15 months (used annual leave for part time before then) and dc2 was 13 months.

anyone else just not feel guilty? I like the lifestyle we can get when we’re working, especially since the 15 funded hrs and now 30, it’s so affordable. (Eldest is in school and youngest now has the 30 hrs) bill is less than £400 a month inc club etc. I like having something else to focus on too.

im not alone or am I?

Yes so 1-1 care is best/ideal. Then after that 1-2 care is second best, 1-3 care third etc. The studies show that having one consistent carer is also really important - so relatives who are consistently in their lives better than nanny, nanny better than childminder (because of ratios), nursery with a rotation of staff and multiple kids in one room that change every day = the hardest for kids to adjust to.

As I said I use full time childcare and I've used nurseries age 1, so I think they're necessary. But that's basically what the research shows - and over age 3 is when kids start seeing a benefit from going to nurseries and group childcare.

Exactly.

It's also about quality time which can still happen during the week as well as weekends, annual leave, holidays etc.

I think it’s less tiring/more relaxing to be at home with your parents, rather than be stuck in the same room with people you have to be social with (whereas at home you can have alone time, and with your family, they’re generally accepting of your social interaction regardless if it’s “normal” or not… if that makes sense?) My DD (age 3, aknots 4) always seems more tired the longer she’s been at school when I come to collect her.

but I might just have this opinion because I have AuDHD and masking is tiring. Perhaps an NT/extraverted kid would be happier being at school longer

I think we can all agree that long days in nursery are clearly not ideal for most young children. Based both on the research and common sense. Shorter hours past the age of 2, sure. But yeah, spending only the weekend with your kids and a couple of hours each evening is never going to be best for babies and young children. This is obvious to anyone with any critical thinking skills whatsoever, before even looking at the research. However, most of us don’t have a choice so hey, guilt is a pointless emotion.

these studies seem to be sub par, as it’s beyond obvious that a child will do better in a 1-1 environment.

nursery settings have key workers, so for instance my child has a key worker that is in on all the days my child is, they also have a secondary one that they are used to and bonded with in the event of illness. They spend time with that individual every day so become known to them. I believe this is common practice.

yes an older child will benefit from the social aspect more as they are capable of active play with other children then and they actively start learning the soft skills that they’ll build upon in school.

id also be interested to see the parameters of what they are defining as ‘better’ and how that is being measured, and against what control group as emotional responses are too unreliable to draw definitive conclusions, they are also too difficult to even measure ethically, especially in a child.

It wasn't the topic of my dissertation or thesis. Just something we covered along the way. The research isn't mine! I've no skin in the game. Just read it, wrote about it and quoted it! It's out there to be read if you want is my only point. Nothing more than that. So, my research skills lacking or otherwise are not relevant.

welll I think it depends because on the days me and my kids are up early on a day out (or adventure) as they call them, exploring and what not, they are bloody shattered. Same when we do our clubs. I think the tiredness will come from a day of physical and mental activity compared to relaxing and chilling watching the television (not saying that is what you do with your children of course)

but I don’t really buy into the logic that long days outside of the house are terrible for young children. They are fed, entertained, cared for, given opportunity to rest etc with a trusted adult those are the same things that occur at home are they not?

Having read this post, I don't actually think we disagree. I don't think you need to read the research if it's beyond obvious to you that 1 to 1 care is better! That's basically the gist of the research.

How much better is the next question, I suppose.

Yet you can’t remember the author, theory, research title or anything… how am I meant to look up these sources outside of a google of ‘is nursery bad’

my point was, there is a huge amount of nuance in reading academic literature, where the study has come from and the model of care there, who has funded the study, its peer review status and the credentials of the academic publishing them, their methodology, if they had a control group, how they assessed outcomes over the short medium and long term and I’m not sure a passing reference in an undergrad module (not even a dissertation) would have done the due diligence in critiquing the study

it is, one to one is literally better in everything it’s the premise of tutoring and 1:1s in work, sole dates rather than group dates. But given that it’s seldom feasible because the parent is not always with that child in perpetuity until age 3, especially if have siblings.

the question of how much… well to me that is dubious, because then are we saying that siblings have worse outcomes than only children? Etc

I think it’s impossible to say nursery or a nanny or a parent is inherently better. It depends on the nursery, nanny or parent obviously. Childcare staff are literally engaging with children as their job - they don’t have laundry and dishes and other caring responsibilities at the same time. So even at my best days of parenting, I’m still often multitasking or balancing the needs of two very different children or trying to sort something out for my parents or whatever. Some days my kids would have had far better interaction at nursery, some days they’d probably have been happier at home, some days it was a toss up.

my daughter is neurodiverse so was quite tired after her day but she loved nursery. It really set her up for an easy start to school as well. And, like many others, I had no choice anyway so feeling bad about it wouldn’t solve anything.

My son is super high energy and super social. I couldn’t keep up with him even as a baby and he was so, so much happier when he started nursery. He still prefers to be super busy and super social.

there is no right or wrong answer here and no reason for anyone to feel badly about wherever you end up on this one. Both are fine as long as you either find great caregivers or really work at it yourself. There’s problems both ways if either option isn’t doing an excellent job of it.

I don't think it is a massively controversial opinion that nurseries are not ideal for young children. The research is out there. I'm not the only one on this thread to have read it and someone else has quoted some studies I think. The OP has conceded that it's 'beyond obvious that 1 to 1 care is better'. It's a fairly widely known fact.

I don't think childcare is damaging to children. I think nurseries specifically can be. I think the standard of care in nurseries in general is not good enough. I think this is only getting worse with the government funding and sudden increase in demand for spaces.

I do wonder what the impact will be on these children in the future, more at a societal level than individually. I do wonder whether the mental health crisis in young people is linked to this. I can't do anything more than wonder about this as I'm not currently in a position to research it/we need to wait ten years.

Also, I've done the homework, the problem is the posters who don't want to do their own homework and demand I do it for them. If you're interested research it. If you're not, carry on. Neither makes any difference to me.

Nothing to feel guilty about, we make the best decisions we can at the time we make them and that's that. I could write pages about the positives of my daughter's nursery and how the amazing staff there helped shape the brilliant girl she is.

I enjoyd going to nursery - so I had no qualms. I have also worked in one, thus I know the importance of high quality childcare.

It's interesting! I don't think a sibling group is quite the same because of differing ages and needs. For example, if you have a 5 year old, 3 year old and baby you're probably getting some one to one time with the baby while older siblings are at school/activities. In a sibling group (of three) 1-3 is the worst case scenario. In a nursery it's often the best case scenario.

I suppose triplets would be a good case study, but even there it's different.

I've worked in nurseries and even though the ratio may be 1-3 it often doesn't work like that. For example, you'll have 9 babies and three staff in a room. It's lunchtime so one member of staff is setting up the highchairs for lunch. One baby has had a poonami and has been taken off to be changed. This leaves one member of staff with the remaining eight babies. This happens all day. The amount of time all three members of staff are available for all babies such that the ratio is 1-3 is minimal ime. I think this is something that is also 'beyond obvious' when you think about it.

I was speaking more to the social energy cost, as an introverted person. If you’re tired of performing for/getting along people who aren’t (nearly) unconditionally accepting of you, having a lie-down in the middle of the day isn’t the kind of respite you need, exactly, because you’re still surrounding by your teachers and classmates during and afterwards. And everything is community property, subject to the classroom rules and to be shared by everyone; nothing is strictly yours to do with what you want like when you’re home with your own things.

Ah showing your academic prowess by misquoting

1:1 in most scenarios is better, it’s better for dating and getting to know someone than a group setting or with a chaperone, it’s better for education hence private tuition, it’s better for work and learning hence 1:1s

BUT then are we saying that siblings have worse outcomes than only children and then surely homeschool is better than traditional school and I’ve not seen any evidence to support that

If your child is in a good nursery and building positive, independent relationships with adults other than their parents, that's not going to be a bad thing. I know it can be hard to find a good nursery and that's one of the overarching problems, but children can thrive with a number of positive attachments. I was lucky enough that the nursery we chose shared our ethos, and as we have a small family, the nursery became my daughter's home from home. She's been going there in some capacity from 6 months old until now at almost 10 years old (they run after-school and holiday care) and they've played a big part in her life - I don't need to be jealous about that, I chose them to be. They've helped provide a stability and comfort in childhood for her that I never had and I can't overstate how much I appreciate them. I wish everyone had the same for their children.

But how long does a nappy need to be changed? The time that takes is minimal. That variable is there in the home too, when a child may literally be left alone (surely that’s worse) while a sibling is changed or toileted.

likewise with setting up high chairs, snap shots.

1:1 is generally better for learning across the board. That’s why it’s obvious, undivided attention is superior to split focus (again hardly ground breaking) but in practical terms undivided attention cannot be a constant

Mine thrived in Nursery 5 days a week from 12 months. They gained so much from it and when they started school there was a clear distinction between the kids who had the benefit of nursery and those who hadn't. The nursery kids were head and shoulders better in every way.

Personally I'd rather have been off work and with them for those years but their needs are more important than mine.

Exactly.

Unless the baby is the first child, babies will have to wait at home sometimes too.

I have twins and a toddler. Someone is always waiting at home it feels like.

YANBU

I love going to work, having a hot coffee and a pee without a small child hanging off my underwear

I love that they eat vegetables and do messy play at nursery

I love that I can afford the roof over their head and food in their bellies, which I could not if I didn't put them in childcare and go to work.

I’m sure nursery hasn’t fucked up your child, but is nursery at 6 months for long days the MOST ideal scenario? Probably not. You also show a misunderstanding of attachment. Gabor Mate is good on this.

I will have to send my DD to nursery as I am the higher earner in my marriage but looking at the research (and I’m an academic researcher as part of my job, though not in this field) nursery at a very young age is not ideal, unless home life is detrimental.

This is the basis of how I feel too!

i love that through my working I’m in a position to save for my kids future, save for my own, save for my retirement, have an adult conversation not about kid related things, show my daughter that your life doesn’t pause if you become a mum- you can still be you and follow your dreams, I love that I can afford to go on a few holidays a year and take my kids to Disney every year

"To live a comfortable life? Re the ‘long day’ The child would be awake regardless. Does it matter where exactly they are?"

What does this mean @Kanfuzed123 ? Of course it matters where children are!