To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

[Kanfuzed123]

Inspired by the childcare eating a £45k salary and the anti nursery sentiment from a few posters on there as being inferior for a child.

anyone else not feel in the slightest guilty that there kids are in nursery and have been post maternity leave?

yeah when they cried at drop off was rough and I called into the check out they were but that soon settled. They do lovely events for the parents and upload lots of amazing activities they do, they’ve made fantastic friends.

I could’ve reduced my hours but I didn’t, we could’ve maybe managed on one salary (glad we didn’t when rates shot up) but I went back FT when dc 1 was 15 months (used annual leave for part time before then) and dc2 was 13 months.

anyone else just not feel guilty? I like the lifestyle we can get when we’re working, especially since the 15 funded hrs and now 30, it’s so affordable. (Eldest is in school and youngest now has the 30 hrs) bill is less than £400 a month inc club etc. I like having something else to focus on too.

im not alone or am I?

It isn’t winning from the government POV either: the point is to try to encourage parents to work and therefore to pay taxes.

Not to mention how much it would disadvantage women in the workplace. Who would want to hire childbearing women if they know that having children would mean the government gives them a bunch of money to enable them to stay at home?

and yes, of course it will be women who will stay at home.

It would be going backwards in that regard.

But that’s your personal opinion @Itssofunnythat paid parental leave is too short. Many of us feel it’s actually pretty good and well balanced taking into account not just parents, but people who don’t have children and - very importantly - employers. Suppose parents were suddenly paid for 2 years or 3 years to be at home. Suddenly you get someone starting a job, taking 2 years out for a child, popping back to work for a few months, then taking another 2 years off…. Employer can’t appoint someone to the post permanently in the meantime - that limits the pool of applicants. And how many people want their children to have a teacher who’s only their intermittently, taking back to back mat leave of several years? Being taught by stand-ins in the meantime. Or who wants their child receiving medical care from a constantly revolving door of specialists because they’re off for several years?

The govt has a responsibility to consider all sides, not just parents who want to stay at home for 18 months, or 2 years, or 3 years….

You have no reason to feel guilty.

It’s only women who are expected to feel guilty for using childcare - never men.

It’s weird.

I did and still do even now my son has grown up. His father dumped us when he was born so I was a single parent. He had to go to a childminder from 6 weeks as that was the only maternity leave then. I basically didn't bring up my own child.
I wish I had spent every one of those years on benefits instead of farming him out. I lost so much of his childhood. I hate myself for it.

Fair enough, another thing on my wish-list is much more equitable division of childcare between both parents. But yeah, that's a stretch. Not impossible, though - other countries have managed, why can't we?

Also, many people here arguing in favour of nursery are saying that every family should make their own decisions. I agree, just that those decisions would be different if freed from some of the financial constraints currently put on parents.

Should we be basing policy decisions regarding children's wellbeing on if nursery owners will lose money or if there will be fewer taxes? Or should we be empowering families to make what they consider the best choice for their children.

Your argument against giving parents a freer choice is that women would choose to stay at home longer, leading to more discrimination in the workplace. But then you're basically saying it's better to reduce women's choices and force them back into the workplace.

Please don't hate yourself. You made a difficult choice in a very difficult situation. You weren't supported by the government or by the dad to do anything differently. I'm sure you made the best decision available to you.

The often used "don't hate the player, hate the game" would fit here.

Fair enough, another thing on my wish-list is much more equitable division of childcare between both parents. But yeah, that's a stretch. Not impossible, though - other countries have managed, why can't we?

The countries that are much more equitable tend to have highly subsidised nursery provision however.

Which is why I think one of the very important sides that the government should consider is whether or not nursery (full time at a young age) leads to worse behavioural and mental health (in some children obviously not all). That can only be decided by a thorough look at the research, but that's exactly what you seem so reluctant to do...

But also longer paid parental leave. 18 months in Sweden.

Also, I would never support the govt making direct payments to parents to be at home. So many pitfalls. Not all parents are caring, or nurture their children in positive ways. Being a parent is pretty much unregulated: other than seriously neglecting or abusing your children, you’re free to look after them pretty much how you want, whether that being a brilliant parent, reading to them, playing with them, feeding them nutritious meals or sticking them in front of a screen with a bag of crisps.

I thought you said "parents do what is best for their own children in their own unique set of circumstances" and "parents know their own children and their own context best. Why not trust them to raise their children in a way which might not exactly match someone else’s?"

Are you against the current paid parental leave? After all, who knows if the parents are just staying at home and feeding their children crisps?

I’ll rephrase that then. Most parents. Not all, as we all know. Some parents have child after child and do not raise them well, sadly.

Except the government as less taxpayers

No, I’ve already said current paid parental leave is about right in my view.

And much higher taxes in the case of Scandinavia.

And the conclusion from that is that supporting early years involves covering a lot of bases.

My friends live in Norway. I like their system. 12 months of parental leave, divided between mum and dad. Among my friends circle, mums tend to take 9, then dads 3. Which has the added advantage of mum not settling baby into nursery at the same time as returning to work. Then subsidised, high quality nursery from a year.

I would actually agree with you there.

But we have paid maternity leave here, even though some parents might not be looking after their children properly.

I'm basically in favour of extending that paid leave and allowing more flexibility.

Well yes, you're going to need that.

But a ''freer choice'' (which would be based on sexist societal norms, so hardly truly a free choice unless we change society first) would likely end up with more childcare places such as nurseries and childminders closing down, not to mention the expectation of staying at home because the government is giving mothers that option.

How wouldn't that reduce women's choices?

@TheKeatingFivethe vast majority of people I know who’ve had babies in recent years have taken 12 months of leave. Sadly, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number who’ve transferred some of that leave to the father.

Not so good for all the taxpayers without kids though lol.

I know in the 80s there were council run day nurseries that were reasonably priced. Shame they got rid of them. Even the private ones were cheaper before the government started subsidizing. I remember I could afford to pay DD1 nursery fees and my rent / bills on a single income. This is before govt " free hours " and tax credits

Yes, I'm not sure whether the Norwegian system requires that some of it be taken by the father, or it's just been established as a cultural norm.

Either way, it would be a great thing to encourage.

That's the only thing I would change currently. I'd give men their own parental leave and it would be more than the pathetic 2 weeks they currently get.

I'm personally of the view that childcare needs to be subsidised to be the highest quality it can be - as it can't operate like a normal business (there are too many necessary regulations). I appreciate many would disagree though.