Have we centred children too much?

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I have a friend- who has 2 sets of children- 20 years apart. 2 by her first marriage (now 30 and 28) and 2 by her second marriage (now 10 and 7)

I have been friends with her since her first child was 6 months old - and we had a really long talk last weekend as she feels totally wiped out. Some of it is age, but really interestingly, she believes she has made a rod for her own back and that parenting has changed so much. When her first two were younger, they were expected to do some colouring, join in if we were talking about child things but were not expected to interrupt her while she was talking. It was kind, caring , loving, they would be sitting on our laps etc but one of us might say " hang on a minute darling because mummy is talking, let us finish this and tell us in a minute" Then, we would finish , talk to them, them redirect them, and carry on chatting. When we were at her house, they were expected to play where we could see them, but not interrupt us. This was for a normal amount of time- say 45 mins - so not hours and hours.
Fast forward 20 years and her younger children need her CONSTANTLY. To the point where she is broken really. I took a takeaway over last Saturday and she ended up in tears, as despite prepping the kids, them having lots of toys/ things to do etc etc they would not stop coming into the room, interrupting her. One had a full tantrum because we wouldn't watch them playing a computer game. She feels she has brought it on herself as she allows them to interrupt, never redirects or makes them wait. She feels that the pressure to be more child centred has sort of seeped in, and she did it almost accidentally.
This is not a parent bashing or goady thread at all- it is intended for a genuine discussion

YANBU

I tell my grandchildren "shush, I'm talking" and they act like it's the end of the world.

Honestly, this just reads like you being impatient because you couldn’t chat your friend over your takeaway as you wanted, and having forgotten how exhausting small children are.

Perhaps she just had more energy, enthusiasm and patience for the first two. Maybe the younger pair feel less secure if she has run out of steam and so become more needy as they feel they have to grab her attention while they can.

no, it really isn't this at all- my friend was the one who was upset- also they are not young children- 7 and 10

we were talking about this being possible- but she feels it's the other way- she's gone so far in making sure that she is energetic and they feel vauled, that she has made them too needy

I think much of the western world has become less tolerant of children. Kids I suspect haven’t much changed.

Oh really? That's interesting- in what way?

Similarly I have dc in teens, 20's and 30's. And a 10 year old. The youngest tells me he is bored more than the rest ever did put together.. He is regularly told we are just living when he asks what we are doing at the week end!!
Personally I blame everything on the change to sports day. No winners or loses. Just points and team places... Nobody has the urge to try hard.. No sense of achievement and pride like before... Dc know now they don't get told off at school anymore and get stickers for the most ridiculous things.
Ds plays a sport where they strive to win the games... His attitude is very different from his peers at school who plod along in PE and in general... Dc have no get up and go and expect parents to manage their lives now. And most dps do it for a quiet life...

I think this might be you and your friend extrapolating a bit! I don’t recognise this from friends, family, children at nursery. All are told to wait and not interrupt.

If she thinks she has done this, then surely it’s all her own doing? Or maybe her younger children are just more needy? I don’t think you can make sweeping generalisations because one of your friends decided off her own back to parent two of her children differently to the other two?

yeah not trying to do sweeping generalisations, more just have a discussion, I'm open to all views etc- we just found it interesting (once she stopped ranting about them never giving her any time at all)

Parenting is definitely more time-intensive than it ever has been. Despite the near constant bashing of the current generation of parents, studies have shown that parents today spend a lot more time with their kids than any other generation have.

I do agree that not expecting kids to wait, or be patient, does create a rod for your own back. I have a cousin who helicoptered over her little ones and was their constant entertainment. Now they really struggle to play independently. I think it’s a hard balance to learn as a parent though.

You know that thing when parents feel 'touched out' like someone is constantly touching them? I think she has a version of that. Just being constantly needed/ expected to share everything - nothing is hers, the kids always expect some of it

Yeah , she's a very clever, competent woman - she almost can't believe she's done it to herself if you know what I mean

Did she say why she thinks she might have done this? To avoid sweeping generalisations, it’s probably better to focus on the issue at hand, your friend think she’s made a mistake in how she’s parented her children. Was she feeling guilty about something, did she just live spending all her time with them?

I parent my kids like she did the first set, and have nobody (to my knowledge) judging me. So she's changed her style and it isn't working, why doesn't she just revert back to how she used to do it?

I think she is more saying that it snuck up on her, she didn.t realise it was happening

I think just osmosis , she mixed with people who all did it this way, society has moved on etc etc

I’m trying to understand this. Why doesn’t she take the approach that worked the first time the second time and decide not to care what anyone else thinks?

It sounds like she can’t be bothered to be on top of this time around and is blaming society.

That must be on her. Children haven’t changed, parenting has. I never allowed my children to interrupt conversations I was having (unless it was important which didn’t really happen anyway). Mummy’s talking can be said in 1940 or 2025 it still means the same.

no, this is the wrong reading of it. She is not blaming and doing nothing about it- she has become overwhelmed, realised she has brought it on herself (by accident) and now is working her way out of it (once she works out how to retrain them obvs)
my thread here is just to discuss if anyone else has thought/ experienced similar/ just have a general discussion

I kind of agree with what you’re saying. All you see here and everywhere else is the statement ‘children should always come first, you should always put your children above everyone and everything else’ etc etc. Except I don’t think that’s true, certainly not in all, or even most cases actually. I believe the main caregiver, be that the mum or dad or anyone else, needs to be the priority. If the person responsible for the majority of decisions for the children, caring for the children, discipline for the children, all the tasks that make running their lives smoothly including housework, education decisions and school runs and activities, clubs and social lives, clothing shoes and uniforms etc etc, if that person ends up exhausted and stressed and run into the ground from never putting themselves first, who are the first to suffer? Clearly the children. Obviously I’m not talking about extreme cases (I’ve seen a lot of posts lately where mums have moved brand new boyfriends into the family household, that just makes you a dumbass), but the shit you get on here for doing even the most ordinary things with your children because it’s not ‘good enough’ is mind boggling. The shit I got once for saying my childrens pack lunch is a ham wrap, a baby bel, a yogurt, cucumber slices and fruit, you’d have thought I’d have packed them a bowl of arsenic for their lunch.

exactly- what she is realising is that she kind of accidentally did it much different to her first 2, and her new way is much more common in her new set of parent friends

What your describing op ,is how I have noticed parents are with their children these days
I was definitely in the first camp you described,but I see parents around me exactly his your friend is with her younger children.
I absolutely wouldn't of coped with that level of neediness from my children,being autistic myself and my children autistic,I needed space to think ,so brought them up expected to play alone or together without adult involvement..I didn't play as a child ,so it didn't occur to me to pay with them or be involved in every aspect of their lives ...but I did read to them every day untill they were far to old for that
I'm frequently horrified at today's parenting...but only from the point of view I knew I wouldn't cope with that situation myself

I don’t think it’s too late. She can start to implement her older style, it might take a bit of time for them to adjust but it’s better than not starting at all.

She's always loved Toblerones- it's been a running present for her for every event- and with her first 2 - it was 'Mummys toblerone' for her to enjoy- with her younger two, they expect she will share it with them