Have we centred children too much?

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I have a friend- who has 2 sets of children- 20 years apart. 2 by her first marriage (now 30 and 28) and 2 by her second marriage (now 10 and 7)

I have been friends with her since her first child was 6 months old - and we had a really long talk last weekend as she feels totally wiped out. Some of it is age, but really interestingly, she believes she has made a rod for her own back and that parenting has changed so much. When her first two were younger, they were expected to do some colouring, join in if we were talking about child things but were not expected to interrupt her while she was talking. It was kind, caring , loving, they would be sitting on our laps etc but one of us might say " hang on a minute darling because mummy is talking, let us finish this and tell us in a minute" Then, we would finish , talk to them, them redirect them, and carry on chatting. When we were at her house, they were expected to play where we could see them, but not interrupt us. This was for a normal amount of time- say 45 mins - so not hours and hours.
Fast forward 20 years and her younger children need her CONSTANTLY. To the point where she is broken really. I took a takeaway over last Saturday and she ended up in tears, as despite prepping the kids, them having lots of toys/ things to do etc etc they would not stop coming into the room, interrupting her. One had a full tantrum because we wouldn't watch them playing a computer game. She feels she has brought it on herself as she allows them to interrupt, never redirects or makes them wait. She feels that the pressure to be more child centred has sort of seeped in, and she did it almost accidentally.
This is not a parent bashing or goady thread at all- it is intended for a genuine discussion

I think her and her husband are formulating a plan

YANBU. Parenting definitely has changed. Those PP saying “well do it the same way you did 20 years ago” are failing to appreciate how human beings work. We are all influenced by people around us without realising and it’s almost impossible to avoid that. 20 years ago you might have sent your ten year old on the bus by themselves. Today most parents wouldn’t do that and would consider the very idea dangerous and irresponsible. It’s not because the world has got more dangerous (it hasn’t) but because parenting has changed.

Jonathan Haidt in one of his books points out that working parents today spend more time with their children than SAHP did fifty years ago. Maybe that’s a good thing. But no wonder parents are knackered! And no wonder children aren’t as able to entertain themselves as their predecessors were at the same age.

That’s great. They're still young enough to adapt to a firmer (but still kind) approach. One of the best things I ever did for me and my children was to instil in them good manners. It’s amazing how good manners can positively infiltrate in all aspects of life.

I centre mine. But at the same time, unless they were infants, they wouldn’t constantly interrupt me when I was busy. Both can be true. Centre children without them being rude.

Some people do. I don’t parent like this. I have an only child and I often tell her to go and play somewhere else because I’m cleaning/ talking to someone/ having a cup of tea/ need some peace etc. I bring her to the playground or library practically every day after school and she plays with friends and I keep an eye on her from a distance. I interacted with her a huge amount until she got to more or less school age, now I have no problem telling her to entertain herself and I will tell her she’s annoying me and to leave me alone.

She's been parenting a long bloody time because she started again, she shouldn't underestimate how tiring it is to just be parenting that many years. I'm in a similar boat and it's exhausting, my older two are 34 and 30, my youngest is 16, I've been parenting 35 years this coming June! I'm just about putting one foot in front of the other 😂

That’s a cop out.

She has parented differently because she is a different person, not because children have changed. If the was happy with way she parented her first two, she would have done it with the second two.

We treat children better these days because it is the right thing to do.

I think this sometimes happens with a second brood - I’m not sure why. Perhaps the parents are more confident and intend to enjoy the journey more the second time around, but maybe end up being more indulgent/don’t have as much energy for enforcing rules

I agree with you OP and interested to hear more viewpoints on the thread.

I must check out the book that @SoonTheDaffodilsWillBeOver referenced - Jonathan Haidt in one of his books points out that working parents today spend more time with their children than SAHP did fifty years ago. Maybe that’s a good thing. But no wonder parents are knackered! And no wonder children aren’t as able to entertain themselves as their predecessors were at the same age.

My mum was a SAHP growing up and of course she looked after us very well but we were expected to play independently, get our homework sorted ourselves etc. I’m late 20s and I see parents my age who I think are afraid of ‘being strict’. There’s a big emphasis these days on being ‘the friend’ I think.

she's not trying to cop out- it really has snuck up on her.

I remember my mum telling me and my brother we were annoying her - not in a nasty way, we knew she loved us, but we knew she also didn't want to talk about lego :)

I totally agree OP. Children are being brought up to think they are the centre of the universe and everything should revolve around them.
It made me laugh recently as one of my children didn't realise adult TV programmes existed as he had never seen one. It was a huge reality check for me. The fact I had never in his little life put something on for myself unless he was in bed. Just a small thing but I notice how the entire day revolves around the children and their needs. It's hard to pull back from, and it's become the norm for many families.

No it doesn’t

I think there's a cultural shift in parenting as we've become more connected (and knowledgable) about parenting strategies from other cultures (Denmark, Italy etc) but I think a lot of this has got lost in translation, people are trying to apply new ideas that they weren't raised with, but just being pushovers.

I do think children do far too much now, so many classes and clubs and homework even for tiny children. Children should be bored sometimes and allowed to make their own fun, but they aren't! Then we wonder why they are so demanding.

Like your friend I had my kids about 20 years ago and I think that parenting has changed.
Some spaces that were for kids eg McDonalds have become spaces for everyone. Compare what McDonalds when we were growing up to the ones today. The slides and climbing frames have been replaced by iPads so kids are quiet for the other diners.

I am wary of the recent spread of dog friendly places. For example there is a sign in the door of my local Costa in a retail park welcoming dogs and dogs and kids is an argument waiting to happen.

I think that the parents of today are often more scared and less confident than the parents of 20+ years ago. There’s much more family content shared on social media with the comment section going crazy with overprotective trolls who are keeping their children much younger than previous generations when they are capable of much more if given the chance. We didn’t fear social services as much when the social services of today is much more cash strapped than back then so the threshold of action being taken being higher.

Did your friend take a different approach because she’s busier or parenting with a different man and didn’t want to be bad cop?

My oldest is 22, my youngest is 4 (and I have one inbetween).

I moved area when my youngest was born, so I mainly made friends at toddler groups. I’ve seen some faces pulled as I bring her up the same as my eldest.

I had one friend tell me how harsh I am. I just don’t do gentle parenting. For example, if she wants to leave the park, it’s a huge deal. Telling her child they will leave soon, the child has a meltdown, she gently negotiates, gives the child choices to cajole them “when we get in the car, would you like to put on some music? What would you like to listen to?”

Where as I just say, “right, time to leave”. If they don’t like it, I tell them no, we are leaving now. If they still don’t like it (not happened since tiny toddlerhood to fair), they were picked up and carried out.

I can’t be arsed with negotiations.

Yanbu.

Parenting has changed so much. I think nowadays parents are genuinely afraid to consistently discipline their children for fear of judgement or even some sort of safeguarding. Which is ridiculous.
My own children have been taught not to interrupt, entertain themselves or each other, not shout or scream, be polite, look after younger children etc.
Unless someone was injured or bleeding, not interested, go and play.

It's really waffle that it's "the right thing to do" when educational providers (and apparently parents too as per this thread) are run into the ground and at their whits end with all the entitled woke kids who think the world begins and ends with them.

My husband went to my nephews school yesterday around lunchtime to collect him for an appointment and he said it was like walking into that school in Adolescence, not to bring it up again, but he was so shocked, they were locking doors to prevent kids from just legging it and the staff were being verbally abused seemingly because they couldnt have their own way. He said, "is it always like this?" And the receptionist said "oh its normally worse."

It’s amazing how children these days survive. They must be so confused. They seemed to be accused of being the centre of the universe, too much time spent playing with adults, too much parent interaction, but at the same time they are ignored, are never interacted with, and have a screen shoved in their face!

It’s great your friend has had a wake up call as is rightly blaming it on herself and not ‘society’.

Years ago children were not the centre of the family in the way they commonly are now. They were loved of course but were expected to fit in with adults rather than the other way round. I wouldn't have been expected or allowed to intrude much or at all in my mother's conversations with friends. Children had routines and for the most part had learnt to self settle and go back to sleep much earlier. There would have been very little of people saying it was perfectly normal that a three year old wasn't sleeping through or having to sleep in parent's beds or parents holding a child's hand till they went to sleep stretched out on the floor.

Parents didn't feel obliged to entertain children the way they do now - we'd have been told that only boring people are bored or given a housekeeping task to do if we complained we were bored. Parents actually used bathrooms and loos without children present. The idea that you trained the child to sleep draped over you so you were stuck on the sofa would never even have crossed our minds.

I think this is just another way to keep women in their place and tied down. along with years and years of breastfeeding. It's not as if the promotion of breastfeeding has produced a generation of generally lean and active children either. If you look at old photographs of say the 1950s or 1960s it was very rare to see a noticeably overweight child and most were very skinny despite starting solids much earlier. I'm not suggesting the old days were some nirvana like existence either before somebody points out all the things that were less enlightened in those days.

I’ve noticed that the gentle parents tend to have unruly kids. If mine show even slightly disrespectful behaviour towards me i make a big deal out of it. Maintaining high standards is easier than correcting low ones.

Absolutely true. I am so glad that my friends' children were all brought up the "old-fashioned" way. They're now in their 20s and 30s, and they are all polite, responsible, hardworking young people who are an absolute credit to their parents.

My kids (well teens now) certainly haven't been allowed to behave like that and they are perfectly good at entertaining themselves.

I do so lots of wet parenting which does result in needy, difficult children. It sounds like your friend has just lost her way a bit.

I think parenting has definitely become more child centered over the years. It’s been a societal shift and that’s just the way it is now.

I also believe that us parents don’t see the world as that much of a safe space anymore and we have possibly shifted some sort of insecurity and attachment onto our children as a result to keep them close by.

Yes, I can't be arsed with a negotiation either. The idea that you can have some sort of democratic relationship with a toddler is ridiculous.

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