Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

[Nextdoortomeis]

As per the title.
I'm sure lots of people would like the state to pay care home fees.
But we don't live in a fair world.
Both mum and mil paid nearly £70k in fees
yes I didn't want to pay but I also wanted them to get the best care in their later years.

Thank you, feel I should have known this but didn’t

It’s annoying to see people ask how they can dodge paying their care fees.
But that’s not the same as people wanting the system to change so that they wouldn’t have to.

I think the system is very unfair and that there should be a basic national care service similar to the NHS (with taxes on the wealthy to pay for it). This could come in stages with gradual increases in the minimum residual savings amount after which care is free.

I also think IHT needs abolishing and replacing with a tax on recipients akin to it being earned income.

You can want the system to change, that’s fine. But you can’t just look to craftily avoid the law by cheating somehow.

The bits that get me are the really rich with liquid assets will pass thousands on to their kids in the way of gifts, pay uni fees, buy cars, gift house deposits etc etc.

It's the low earners who's entire wealth is in their ex council house that they scrimped and saved to buy that end up loosing out.

It's a system designed to keep working classes down.
The £16k allowed savings hasn't gone up for about 20 years either.

So no way of premature gifting to children then

If care home fees were not going towards subsidising someone else in the care home who can’t pay and profit to the owner, I’m sure less people would have a problem with it.

^ This. I think it's fine that my MIL is paying the full cost of HER care but it's bloody annoying that she's also paying for some of the care for other residents. Plus as council tax payers we're paying for the care of other residents at other homes.

This. It’s the same as rich people paying accountants to hide their money to avoid taxes - yet they would go nuts about someone claiming benefits they weren’t entitled to. It’s so hypocritical.

The 7 year rule is for inheritance tax only. Local authorities can go back further than that when looking for deprivation of assets.

Exactly! This is what happened in the past. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very glad that I’ve had an education and now a job as in the past it’s women who cared for the elderly without question.
My mother left school early to care for her mother and the other children after her mother became ill.This was the norm. She was expected to give up her life.
Society has changed for the better but we need to decide if we want
1 unpaid family labour ( probably women )
2 the state to care for the elderly ( at huge cost to government )
3 private care ( huge cost to the individual)

Wasn’t Theresa May considering implementing a cap for care fees when she was PM? And had to drop it?

It does feel unfair to me. Why other necessary care such as cancer treatment covered by the NHS, but not elderly care? It’s a lottery (to some extent) who will need it and who will manage without. It should all be factored in to social care.

Labour dropped it I believe. It was supposed to be capped at £85k.

Wasn’t Theresa May considering implementing a cap for care fees when she was PM? And had to drop it?

Yes, then Jeremy Corbyn named it a Dementia Tax and it nearly lost her the GE.

The argument shouldn’t be about paying the fees, it should be a fair amount charged for the fees.
Too many private companies are making millions for substandard basic care.
The staff aren’t very well paid, the money goes to the owners.

You don’t know what extortion means, do you?

I can vaguely remember a media furore in the 90s about people having to sell their homes to pay for care. But I was very young then. What was the system before that?

We don’t make people liquidate their assets to pay for heart surgery and cancer treatment, so why is dementia care so different?

My SIL is friends with two doctors, multimillionaires from the care homes they own, Ballantyne, made his millions in care home ownership…
There is no reason for £1000+ costs per week.

Actually, l think it is extortion to force someone to subsidise a stranger’s care fees in addition to paying their own.

Their worried they won't get a inheritance if they have to pay 😡

One aspect that’s not often mentioned, is that it’s something of a luxury to be able to self-fund. You can choose the time and place, instead of being at the tender mercies of invariably hard pressed and cash strapped SS. It’s not uncommon for relatives doing their best to care, to be on their knees with stress and exhaustion, before SS will step in.

Plus you don’t have to suffer any social worker who has never met the person before, telling you what their needs are, when you are all too well aware of these, thank you.

We’ve had 2 self funders in this family - DM and FiL, both with dementia, and I was profoundly grateful for the ability to decide when I simply couldn’t do it any more.

That is what really annoyed me. Plus the bloody councils are so secretive any information but they want to know everything about the person both financially and medically (as my aunt used to say "far end of megs arsehole").
Also care homes are very secretive about their fees and some want evidence of two years fees before admitting someone and others want guarantors.
As for numbers needing care homes - well you obviously don't need it if you die of TB, diabetes, heart disease or cancer before you get old but as these conditions are now treatable there are more people living to very old age with chronic conditions so will be more in need of care homes.
Where will we get the care staff from - at one time home helps and carers were almost always women with older children returning to the job market after being involuntary sahms or migrant workers whether from east Europe or elsewhere. These people are reducing in number so homes will have to pay out more to recruit staff and of course fees will go up for self funders (councils have no money to increase what they will pay)

I’m not sure it works like that. If you reach an age and deteriorate in terms of physical health the Social Services will do a financial assessment for your care needs:

In England, social services will typically conduct a financial assessment to determine your eligibility for help with care costs if your savings and investments (capital) are below £23,250.

Here's a more detailed explanation:
Capital Limit:
The government sets a capital limit of £23,250, which includes money in bank accounts, investments, and the value of assets like a former home or second property.

Financial Assessment:
If your capital is below £23,250, a financial assessment (or means test) will determine how much you may need to contribute towards the cost of your care.

Self-Funder:
If your capital is above £23,250, you will be considered a self-funder and will need to pay the full cost of your care until your capital falls below the limit.

Financial Assessment Process:
The financial assessment is free and happens after a needs assessment or carer's assessment.

Council Contribution:
The council may contribute to the cost of your care depending on your needs and how much you can afford to pay.

Example
If you have £17,250 in savings the council will calculate your tariff income by subtracting the lower capital limit of £14,250 (£17,250 - £14,250 = £3,000) and then dividing by £250 (£3,000 / £250 = £12)

My dad spent £200 on care home fees. Everything he had in life, everything he worked his fingers to the bone for.

He was abused in two homes. I’m am still fighting them after his death. SS and CQC are useless.

Your money will not buy you the best care unless you are a multi millionaire.

My dad was in the same homes as people who didn’t have a penny and were LA funded. Even those were 1.5k a week.

Your money won’t do you any good or buy you good care. Spend it all on yourself and your children while you can.

Especially when the people who haven't paid a penny into the system will get it for free.

The best way to even this out and make it fairer would be to tax inheritance properly in order to fund social care properly. A flat % IHT on the value of all estates, for example. Andy Burnham suggested this some years ago. Trouble is, people shriek at any inheritance tax, and so politicians really aren't going to take that step.

Decades of blood sweat and tears go into paying rent too. But that all goes to someone else