Would you be comfortable with travel arrangements

[Terribletasteinmen]

Name changed as this is very obviously me to anyone that knows me!

Some background - My exH moved to another European country about 5 years ago, we have a now 15yo DD who lives with me and my DH in the UK. He sees her every 6/8 weeks or so normally. It’s all friendly other than usual ex annoyances!

My DD and her (also 15yo just) friend are joining them on holiday in France in the Summer. This involves a 2 hour train journey from where we live to London, tube to Eurostar, Eurostar to Paris, travel across Paris, then hour and a half train to destination in France.

He thinks they can do this all on their own and I’m babying them saying I’m totally uncomfortable with it. I’m happy to get them to the Eurostar in London if he gets them from Paris (I’m ok with them going on Eurostar on their own). He’s reluctantly agreed but is making me feel I’m being ridiculous / overprotective - at a push I might be ok with the England bit (but as it’s only me inconvenienced by that bit it’s not an issue) but not getting across Paris on their own. It just feels a bit too young still. AIBU?

There is no chance I would let my 15yo navigate Paris and then get another train.

And you need to consider the friend - what do her parents say about the plan?

For starters, they can't travel on the Eurostar without a responsible adult or the correct paper to go as unaccompanied minors. Travelling with children | Eurostar
Are they familiar with London? I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, would flying be an option?

I mean I’m not changing my mind - they’re not doing it - I just wanted to know if I was being helicopter parent or if it’s his (in my opinion) normal bad risk assessment - he makes me doubt myself

Is it a route she knows well?

Not at all - he doesn’t live in France so she’s not used to Paris at all

That would be the deal breaker for me then. It’s one thing on a route she has travelled many times but not on a new one.

Do they speak French?

I did similar as an adult, and not speaking French made it much more difficult. Even small things like working out how to buy a ticket from the machine. Also there were lots of security with machine guns at the Gare du Nord, which was a little bit startling when you're not used to it.

I think I'm on the laid back side and I would want their father to meet them off the Eurostar.

Given that she's not been to Paris before, it seems a lot to navigate, particularly if she doesn't speak french fluently. The metro can be quite tricky in terms of getting tickets.. DS got threatened with an on the spot fine for doing it wrong, one wrong turn caused all sorts of problems. Her father should meet them off Eurostar or at the airport. There's quite a lot of trouble that 2 15 year olds can get into abroad by themselves.

No, they don’t really speak “proper” French - my DD does bit but only to Y10 standard and her friend not at all.

To be honest at that age one of my friend's parents wouldn't let her get the train from Manchester for a day out at Blackpool pleasure beach.
There's a awful lots of steps and opportunities for things to go awry there.

I did similar journeys several times alone as a young adult (20/21) and I found it really daunting the first few times as my French wasn’t great.

As brilliant as the European railway system can be, I don’t find they’re always intuitive if you’re not used to them or you can’t speak the language. There are often unsavoury characters in railway stations unfortunately, so I absolutely wouldn’t let my 15 do that. In fact I wouldn’t even consider it.

Sounds like you have recently watched Taken with Liam Neeson. A train is a train. They'll be fine and will love it.

I don’t mind them being on a train! It’s the finding their way across a strange city with which metro line to take / getting tickets / finding the next train all whilst not speaking the language.

I had parents living in different countries.

I travelled on a plane by myself at age 12.

Several times.

I think 15 is fine to travel with a friend.

I’d have no issue with her getting a plane on her own either - as long as someone was taking her to the airport and picking her up there - similar to what we’re doing with Eurostar.

And? Completely irrelevant. Especially as you will have been classed as an unaccompanied minor so overlooked by staff. Not at all in the same league as this, far easier.

This is completely different though. I assume you were put on the plane by an adult and the met at your destination by an adult. Navigating your way around a country where you don’t speak the language and having to change trains is not the same as a plane journey. I don’t think a flight would be an issue.

Overlooked by staff? Lol.

They didn't do anything. I wasn't looked after by anyone on the plane.

I still had to get through baggage control and find my suitcase by myself. I wasn't helped by any staff at any point.

And i had then to walk out and try to find my dad in a big crowd. (This was before mobile phones) .

I'm not saying it's right.

I think it was wrong actually. It's strange it was acceptable back then.

To let unaccompanied minors travel alone on a plane.

Do airlines still allow this?

Depends on the airline - you have to be 16 on Ryanair for example but some let you from younger. I think a lot don’t want the responsibility in this more litigious culture.

Presumably they would look at the metro map. Also pretty sure that 20 odd million non French speaking tourists manage to purchase tickets each year. Let them have a little adventure

I remember my parents (who had a very bad divorce ) came to the arrangement of me travelling on the plane by myself. Because my mum had taken us to her home country without my dads permission. So she was afraid if she set foot in his home country she could be arrested for child abduction.

And my dad (he didn't pay any maintenence) was afraid that if he set foot in my mother's country, that he would be arrested for not paying maintenece.

So they both refused to go to each other's country for fear of being arrested. So it was agreed I would go on the plane by myself back and forth.

True story. Some divorces are brutal.

I used to fly all the time as an unaccompanied minor. I have also transferred from Eurostar across Paris as an adult with not bad levels of French. Completely different kettle of fish. The trip across Paris was doable but not fun. I loved the flying and was well looked after. Op, I would 100% be with you on this.

I agree with OP that they will be fine getting to Paris but should be collected at the train station there. Paris can be difficult to navigate. The Gare du Nord can be very rough. Two young girls will probably have a lot of aggressive male attention and it might get a bit much. They could do it alone the next time once they've worked out their bearings.