Would you be comfortable with travel arrangements

[Terribletasteinmen]

Name changed as this is very obviously me to anyone that knows me!

Some background - My exH moved to another European country about 5 years ago, we have a now 15yo DD who lives with me and my DH in the UK. He sees her every 6/8 weeks or so normally. It’s all friendly other than usual ex annoyances!

My DD and her (also 15yo just) friend are joining them on holiday in France in the Summer. This involves a 2 hour train journey from where we live to London, tube to Eurostar, Eurostar to Paris, travel across Paris, then hour and a half train to destination in France.

He thinks they can do this all on their own and I’m babying them saying I’m totally uncomfortable with it. I’m happy to get them to the Eurostar in London if he gets them from Paris (I’m ok with them going on Eurostar on their own). He’s reluctantly agreed but is making me feel I’m being ridiculous / overprotective - at a push I might be ok with the England bit (but as it’s only me inconvenienced by that bit it’s not an issue) but not getting across Paris on their own. It just feels a bit too young still. AIBU?

No-one including the OP is picking up on what this post points out - that 15 year olds have to travel with an over 16 or with the completed paperwork as Unaccompanied Minors. We did this for my DC on two separate Eurostar journeys last year and you have to specify who is dropping them at the Eurostar and who is collecting them in Paris, and vice versa on the way home. I’m not sure how brilliantly it was checked but it would shut your ex up anyway 🤷🏻‍♀️

I didn’t realise that - thank you. I better read up on the paperwork they’ll need (exH booked tickets not me)

I 100% agree with you. Travel from one stop to another or navigating rail travel in the UK would be totally fine. But if theyve never been there before theres just too many variables.

Navigating the London Tube can be hard enough for a lot of people not used to it let alone abroad with language barriers and where phones etc may not work (if a phone runs out of battery or is dropped and breaks etc)

YANBU and I think youve stuck to your guns and can see the bigger picture.

Yes, as above. I was coming on to say that I have twice seen teenage children spoken to by officials when going through Eurostar security, presumably to check that they were with an adult and not unaccompanied. One was my own DC (who was standing slightly behind me momentarily), the other was a boy of about 13 (not sure of the situation).

I would also not advise two young girls to travel alone on the Metro from Gare du Nord. There will be a huge crowd of people coming off the Eurostar and going down to the Metro, so in some senses it would be fine, but the station and the Metro system can be a bit edgy and it would be far better for them to be met on arrival.

I disagree with you - travelling in a train in your own country is totally different to crossing a strange city where you don’t speak the language!

You don’t seem to be grasping the point but I don’t want to derail the thread so probably best if we leave it here.

OP - Citymapper works in Paris, it’s really handy so download it for your DD. Also download the IDF Mobilités app, you can buy Paris metro tickets (singles, day tickets etc) and they will be sent straight to phone/watch and all she’ll have to do is wave her phone over the sensor and the gates will open. I’m sure your ex will sort it all out but if she has these on her phone in advance, it may make things easier.

You don't need to speak the language though.

Every ticket machine at every train station and every metro station in paris, has the option to translate the menu to English.

I was in paris recently. I bought my ticket at the machine. The instructions and timetables were all in English.

I'm sure most of us have gone to France, and have not been fluent in French!

Yes, but not alone at 15. Paris is a pretty hectic, grimy place. If she was an experienced traveller maybe, but why risk it? You keep banging on about being sat on a plane as if it were any way similar to making your way across a capital city you’ve never been to before where you don’t speak the language. They’d be sitting ducks.

And what primary school were you still at at 12? I’d have no issue with one of my kids flying somewhere alone at 12, I wouldn’t want them traversing Paris alone at 15.

I’m not entirely sure why you keep detailing this thread, especially given you barely seem to understand what anyone, let alone the OP is writing!

You need to be able to speak the language to be able to tell someone to leave you alone. Or ask for directions. Or say ‘excuse-me’ if someone is blocking your way and it’s your stop.

It’s not just about buying tickets.

It gives me Taken anxiety

The primary school I was at was not in the UK, and students stay there until age 12.

Let me guess you're a poster from the UK who thinks that everything revolves around the uk, and that everyone went to school in the UK.

Laughable. First of all, mumsnet gets people from all over the world.

Second of all, families move around a lot.

I was born in the UK, bit I did not go to primary school in the UK. As we moved.

And you can't even write "derailing" right! Lol

And I'm not derailing. I'm allowed to have an opinion. The same as you are.

Someone with a differing opinion to you, isn't derailing hun. It's called a different opinion. Grow up.

What’s your point @Abbygabby87 ? The op is in the uk so yes, we are answering it as if she’s in the uk.

@Terribletasteinmen hmm yes that’s a tough one. How about a taxi across Paris?

It depends on the children - are they basically sensible
have they done the trip before with adults - how well
do they know the route
have they got much French ? Will they understand platform change announcements and the like?
can they be collected in Paris if the train system falls over ?
Are they really good friends - will they never leave each other

at that age it’s not clear cut but mine would have been fine

So it depends really in how travel savvy your DD and her pal are. My kids live in London, we don't own a car so we have always taken public transport everywhere and they are very used to navigating bus, tube etc. They have had to take public transport to and from school and have coped when there were closures etc and no phone battery left !
So consequently I'd be ok with them navigating Paris too. However that being said, they are boys not girls and less susceptible to hassle as they are very tall. I'm not sure I'd be letting my kids do it if they had limited experience of navigating around transport systems.
If I were you, I'd probably be accompanying them to the Eurostar (could you make a day out of it for yourself?) and insist that DH meets them in Paris. Whilst googlemaps etc does help, the transit system in Paris is a bit complex eg RER vs Metro and often RER is actually best depending on where they are going eg Gare du Lyon I'd probably take RER but Montparnasse I'd take metro.
You can look online for guides to help navigate and teyd probably be fine, it's more if there's a problem eg train delayed or cancelled, strikes etc which is when I'd be worried for them. Does your exH know anyone in Paris as an alternative who could meet them ?

All the posts about "the ticket machines are in English, just read the map" posts ignore that the issue isn't their ability to do it if everything proceeds smoothly, it's how able they are to manage if something goes wrong.

Things going wrong in multi-part journeys is pretty common and tourists being targeted by petty criminals is also sadly not uncommon in major cities.

So yes, the 15 year olds could manage the ticket machine for the metro and to navigate the stops just fine. But if the Eurostar is delayed and/or they make a silly mistake on the metro and miss their onward connection which was specifically ticketed train, how are they managing? If they had their phone out to check citymapper and it's snatched, how are they dealing with police in an unfamiliar country rather than at home?

Those things are all unlikely but possible, and a 20 year old is on average going to be much more able to deal with it than a 15 year old. A lot of 15 year olds will not be well equipped to deal with unexpected issues - some will, some won't but being in a country where systems and language are unfamiliar will add to the stress and the likelihood that one tricky issue becomes multiple tricky issues.

Shit does happen when you travel. I've travelled a lot, solo, since my early 20s and despite not being a risk taker, planning enormously and being pretty savvy, things go wrong and you can end up in challenging situations that take a degree of confidence, maturity (and luck) to navigate.

Totally back OP in the boundaries she's set.

Could you compromise and ask Ex to meet her at Gare De Nord?Getting on to Eurostar you could track reasonably well and then it is one train to Paris. After that I think it is more complicated and whilst 15 is a reasonable age to travel at, I would share your concern that solo in Paris with no language skills would be too much.

Which terminal do they need to get to, OP?

Ffs. Read the thread!

I replied to a specific poster who said to me

"what primary school were you still at, at age 12".

Because primary schools in the UK finish at age 11.

I pointed out to her, that I didn't go to primary school in the UK.

Are you following the thread at all? You do see that she wrote that, and i replied to her specifically, yes.

Read the thread before replying

It's Paris, not Mogadishu. A couple of 15-year-olds should be more than capable of buying a Metro ticket. It's not complicated and there are plenty of instructions etc available in English.

Where is the onward destination? Sometimes it is much easier to change in Lille vs Paris.

I don’t consider myself a particularly over protective or risk averse parent but would not have been happy with this when my very sensible girls were 15. More to the point I don’t think they would have been happy.

I have read the thread. And I think the what school question was perfectly reasonable. It certainly didn’t warrant your diatribe or all the angry responses from you. You could’ve just said “I didn’t go to school in the uk”. So ffs yourself.

If they were already seasoned travellers and were up for doing it then it would be ok but the fact that your dd doesn't want to do the last bit without a parent means you're making the right decision. It is different navigating public transport in other countries even if ticket machines are in English - it might be that not all announcements are done in English too.
My DD travelled across my country navigating several forms of transport (bus, intercity train, metro, tram) last summer at 13 but she was with her 16 year old friend who was used to public transport (living in a small town DD is not used to it at all) and it was all in a country where she knew the language, knew that she'd be able to ask for help in her language and knew that if something went wrong there were people (relatives and friends) that could meet and help her. Very different to doing similar abroad.