Claire’s Law/ Sarah’s Law for FIL

[Red0]

My FIL has always been very quiet and even after 20 years I’ve barely had a conversation with him despite being in his company quite a lot. He comes across as introverted and shy. I always only saw him that way until I had kids and it started to make me a bit more uncomfortable when he would sit his GC on his lap and talk to them very quietly so others couldn’t hear, or try to take them into a separate room and you couldn’t hear what was going on in there. Although around the time of the birth of my first DC I found when using his computer that he’d been watching porn - nothing nefarious, but still I was quite shocked that this quiet older man secretly watches porn - each to their own I guess. Maybe my judgement of his behaviour has been clouded by this discovery. But from then my DC have never been alone with him.

I have recently found out that he was arrested (all I know about when this was is “when he was younger”) for apparently urinating in public. I don’t know if that is something one would be arrested for decades ago. I’m shocked I’ve not heard about it before and it all seems a bit shady the way it was being spoken about, and not “Oh Bob got arrested when he was younger for peeing in a bush, what’s he like!” I don’t know how to describe it, but as if there was more to it. DH says he was told about this but had almost forgotten about it until this recent conversation came up. I asked MIL what the charge was actually called and she said “I don’t know, indecent exposure or something like that” and then shut down anything further I tried to say on the matter.
WIBU of me to try and find out what he was actually arrested for? I don’t even know if I could, but would I be able to make a Claire’s Law or Sarah’s Law for something like this? My DC don’t spend time alone with them, but need to stay at my SILs soon while DH and I attend a funeral and SIL said she needs to go to an appointment so her parents (my ILs) will need to watch the kids for a couple of hours. I’m not overly worried, but this has crossed my mind to do. AIBU?

Firstly, watching porn doesn't equate to then watching CSA and yes urinating in public was (and still is) illegal and you can be arrested and charged with indecent exposure.

However, if you are concerned you absolutely can make a Sarah's law application and continue to be vigilant around time around your FIL. If I was concerned my FIL was a paedophile then I wouldn't be okay leaving my children with them so I think you need to find alternative arrangements.

Was he charged with indecent exposure, or “just” arrested? urinating in public is a public order offence and has been for some time, so an arrest is not unusual.

why do you think watching porn leads to CSA? Was the porn he watched illegal? How do you know he watched it in secret, not with your MIL or with her knowledge?

but yes, if you’re concerned, seek assurances through the relevant application.

I wouldn’t be leaving kids alone with them until you know for sure what the offence was. Then you can make a fully informed decision.

When there's doubt, there's no doubt. Just do it. It will hopefully put your mind at ease although would it be covered in this case? I thought it was more for abusive partners.

From what you have said I think he was probably flashing, and the urinating in public was his excuse to everyone else.

To clarify I don’t think watching porn equates to CSA at all, but I’m wondering if discovering that he watched porn and kind of thinking “dirty old goat!” around the time my DC was born is making me see him in a different light in general and I’m seeing something in him that isn’t there. The porn wasn’t illegal as in didn’t involve kids or anything like that, but it was very old ladies with younger men - some claimed to be grandmother and grandson (although ‘grandson’ was like 30) so still disturbing in my eyes.
I couldn’t get any further info when I asked about this arrest as the subject was changed rapidly - it was brought up freely, but then it was shut down when I tried to ask further questions. DH claims he doesn’t know anything more than being told his dad was arrested in his younger years for urinating in public and never really thought about it’s since and isn’t concerned.

Yes I don’t even know if something like that would be covered or it’s something I could find out, but then I guess it’s less about finding out what exactly he did and more about finding out whether he’s a risk to my kids. I would like to know what he did regardless TBH because even if it was “just flashing” I still find that disgusting, although I know that doesn’t necessarily pose a risk.
Does anyone know whether Claire’s Law or Sarah’s Law would even be suitable for this? I guess I can buy try. There’s no way of me finding out what he was officially arrested for is there or what happened afterwards?

I’d call 101 or visit your nearest police station and talk it through

Don't focus on finding out what the offence was; focus on the talking quietly and taking your child into another room. Put a stop to that straight away.

It's Sarah's law for children at risk I think. Claire's law is for domestic violence.

It's never just flashing, that is indicative of further sexual depravity so if he was arrested for flashing that would concern me greatly.

He doesn’t do that, he used to do that with his other GC but he’s never had the opportunity to do that with mine as I always call them back or distract them every time he’s tried. My DC have never had a close relationship with him as I started to become wary. This talk of arrest for apparent indecent exposure has just made me wonder if my concerns are actually more warranted than I perhaps gave myself credit for.

Make the request . If it gives you peace of mind . I would go with gut feeling . And if you don’t feel ok leaving your children there please don’t . Fake a illness , find a excuse but don’t risk it

Yes exactly, unless he’s done something to do with DV or CSA I don’t think I could find out, but that doesn’t mean that I think he’s a decent man for just flashing or pissing in public or whatever he’s done. If it’s not DV or CSA (which it’s probably not) I doubt I’d be able to find out any details but I still want to know.

Try find out his age when he was arrested.. My ds was brought home for flashing his bum at an old lady when he was a teenager... He didn't grow up to be a danger to anyone..
If fil was an adult and had his penis out in public that brings a new level of questioning imo...

Claire’s law is for domestic abuse and you wouldn’t be entitled to information under that request as you are not in a relationship with him. Sarah’s law relates to the risk to children and as he will be caring for your child in the future then you should be entitled to any relevant information. Contact your local police and say you’ve recently learned your father in law has been convicted of a sexual offence but you don’t know the details and need the information to inform whether your children are safe in his care.

This.

Sounds like your MIL is minimising it. I wouldn’t have them look after my kids alone personally.

Yes I’ve just been reading about Clare’s Law and didn’t seem that our situation would be relevant to request this. Thanks for the tip on contacting the police though, I’ll try to find out as much info on his arrest as I can and contact them. Can’t imagine it’ll be very easy to find out when or where as ILs weren’t keen to discuss further when I was pressing for info and will be difficult to bring it up again. He also has a really generic name, think Bob Smith and they’ve moved around quite a lot over the years.

When I was 7 years old I was walking down a few doors with my friend, going between our houses. A man came out his door, asked us if we wanted to come inside for an ice lolly because it was a hot day. He then got his penis out and started urinating on the wall in full view of us both. Two 7 year old girls.

I guess he could also say he was arrested for just urinating in public.

No harm doing the request if you have suspicions. Better to keep your children safe. He might be totally harmless, but he might not be. Usually those actually arrested for urinating in public aren’t doing it down the back of an alleyway discreetly.

how have you jumped from urinating in public to flashing?

two very different crimes.

a woman I met at baby group was once given a warning for allowing her son to urinate in public. She was indignant as “he’s two!” But the officer was simply telling her it was an offence and not a good idea to encourage her son to do it. Even at a young age it’s not good to teach them it’s ok. It does piss me off the amount of men who seem to have grown up learning it’s ok to stop and pee whenever, and have never learned to hold it in like women do.

sarah’s law o/p. If he’s not a risk you won’t be told anything, if he is they will disclose to you so you can take appropriate safeguarding measures.

Yes she definitely does. Although for all I know she could be as much in the dark about the situation as anyone else as I don’t know whether it happened when they were together or before, I don’t know if we was charged etc.

Just make a request using Sarah’s law but stop basing your decisions on the outcome; his behaviour is creepy and not appropriate. His results may come back clean, that does not mean he is safe or trustworthy!

Sorry you had to go through that as a child, how awful. But yes that’s my feeling too, do you really get arrested for minding your own business and taking a quick pee in a bush? I think not and that where my concern stems from.

Yes I would do a Sarah's Law request otherwise you'll just worry, better to find out as much information as you can. The porn use is yuk but hardly unusual, the behaviour with GC doesn't seem inherently dodgy - my FIL would sit them on his lap and would take them off alone to potter in the garden or sit drawing at the table, I never thought it was suspicious for them to be alone with their Grandad.

Obviously, the arrest for indecent exposure is more concerning. I wonder if it could have been when he was much younger and genuinely stopped to pee in a bush while drunk on a night out? That's probably not an unusual occurrence, I've seen very drunk young men peeing in a doorway or alleyway in the city on a night out! Hopefully a Sarah's Law disclosure will give you more detail.

This.

Whether he was urinating in public because he couldn't wait or was getting sexual gratification from it or the exposure of his penis is really irrelevant (although it is important to know that flashing is often a gateway offence). You may or may not get anywhere with the police but you really need to listen to your instincts and act on them. Even if he's perfectly harmless, it does no harm not to put the children at potential risk.

Don’t worry about getting more information about his crime, the police will be able to complete their own search with what you already know. You’ll need his full name, date of birth and current address, but it would also be helpful to give them any other previous addresses or areas he lived in if you can. They can run a local and national check.

I think making a request using Sarah's law and discovering nothing is preferably to not making a request and there being something.