Claire’s Law/ Sarah’s Law for FIL

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My FIL has always been very quiet and even after 20 years I’ve barely had a conversation with him despite being in his company quite a lot. He comes across as introverted and shy. I always only saw him that way until I had kids and it started to make me a bit more uncomfortable when he would sit his GC on his lap and talk to them very quietly so others couldn’t hear, or try to take them into a separate room and you couldn’t hear what was going on in there. Although around the time of the birth of my first DC I found when using his computer that he’d been watching porn - nothing nefarious, but still I was quite shocked that this quiet older man secretly watches porn - each to their own I guess. Maybe my judgement of his behaviour has been clouded by this discovery. But from then my DC have never been alone with him.

I have recently found out that he was arrested (all I know about when this was is “when he was younger”) for apparently urinating in public. I don’t know if that is something one would be arrested for decades ago. I’m shocked I’ve not heard about it before and it all seems a bit shady the way it was being spoken about, and not “Oh Bob got arrested when he was younger for peeing in a bush, what’s he like!” I don’t know how to describe it, but as if there was more to it. DH says he was told about this but had almost forgotten about it until this recent conversation came up. I asked MIL what the charge was actually called and she said “I don’t know, indecent exposure or something like that” and then shut down anything further I tried to say on the matter.
WIBU of me to try and find out what he was actually arrested for? I don’t even know if I could, but would I be able to make a Claire’s Law or Sarah’s Law for something like this? My DC don’t spend time alone with them, but need to stay at my SILs soon while DH and I attend a funeral and SIL said she needs to go to an appointment so her parents (my ILs) will need to watch the kids for a couple of hours. I’m not overly worried, but this has crossed my mind to do. AIBU?

Yes you do, if you are caught by a police officer.

Sarah’s Law request. It should be fairly easy. When I did it, I just walked into my local police station and talked to the man behind the counter. Filled out a form and they rang me like 2 days later.

I don’t think the things you’ve described are necessarily red flags. All old men with internet access watch online porn, just like all younger ones do. And the charge in and of itself may be meaningless or hard to make sense of. For example, 20+ years ago, I got a conviction for public disorder or something similar. What I did was I literally road my bike down a footpath, not a bike path, and failed to stop when it crossed another road/path thing. I didn’t hit anyone or cause any damage. Actually there wasn’t anyone around but other cyclists out for their morning rides.

But there happened to be a police officer just standing there and he stopped me and gave me a ticket, but because I was on a bicycle, not a car, it wasn’t really a moving violation, and it fell into some legal grey area. I had to go to court and had a solicitor (!!), I know, ridiculous, and 45 year old me would have fought it, but 25 year old me just listened to whatever the solicitor said and I pled guilty. I don’t think it’s on my record anymore, but I always end up having to tell this funny story about why I have a charge for public disorder on my record. 😂 Sometimes these things aren’t what they seem. That said, the beauty of Sarah’s Law is they can actually tell you what’s on record.

What I would listen to is your gut. Your gut is picking up on behaviour that isn’t right and a secretiveness in the family. That’s exactly why you should do the disclosure.

Please do sarahs law. They will tell you anything relevant. Police could locate your father using your partners details too as they’d be linked on the police framework so doesn’t matter if you don’t have full details.

Sent wouldn’t be attending the funeral . I’d stay with my kids .
No way would I have these thoughts about someone and leave my kids there!

I say op has a gut feeling there is more going on and she should listen to her gut.

Don't let anyone else's thoughts or feelings minimise that feeling you have - the one in your gut. Your intuition is telling you something. Do NOT ignore it.

Watching porn - nothing nefarious. Give your head a wobble as they say on MN.

Exactly. You just need to make 100% sure that he never has an opportunity to abuse your children. That doesn't mean that he would, given the opportunity, but it's the only way to have peace of mind and protect your children.

I can't really see your so called "red flags"

• watching legal porn, like thousands other blokes? You think just because he is "old and shy" he shouldn't be doing it??

• MIL "mknimising" his arrest - for all we know, you might have seem suspiciously pushy/asking weird questions around it, making her uncomfortable. She told you what it was, why does she need to go in any more detail? Now if you're worried, then make the request as others have advised, but don't cast a verdict without knowing anything.

• Behaviour around DC - does he normally talk quietly or just when they're on his lap? What are the reasons he'd take them to another room - is to play with particular toys, show them something, etc. Does he say anything or is just suddenly gone?

And the indecent exposure arrest?

There is no shitty male behaviour you won’t defend. It’s like a hobby.

I'm not sure you'll find out anything useful, unless he committed a serious crime. If his arrest was when he was young, and he's now an older gentleman, then he wouldn't be on the sexual offenders register as it wasn't created until 1997. The police may not tell you anything about the arrest (if they have anything) if it's not DV or CSA related, because knowing this country, it may infringe data privacy rights.

You're doing the right thing OP, being cautious and keeping on your guard. I don't know how old your DC are, but if old enough, ensure they know about bodily autonomy, they don't have to accept hugs or sit on laps, no undressing in front of others etc.

Your gut is telling you to protect your children and that's the thing to focus on. The rest, in terms of his history is not relevant at all.

Please make some different arrangements so that your DC are not left alone with the ILs.

Were you the same lady that said her FIL was sitting your DD on his lap ,and not letting her go? Its strange anyway ,why he needs to "talk very quietly and take her into another room FFS!" I would see if you can find out through Claire law or whatever.Meanwhile stop all visits ,and have MIL over to you or meet them out somewhere instead .This is how abuse happens "Oh Ted wouldnt do that " or whatever .

It sounds like there's more to this. Surely no police officer is arresting someone peeing discreetly in a bush? I'm sure many cops have peef in a bush at the side of the motorway in traffic. Also, if you are peeing in a bush, most people only do this in a secluded area.

To have been caught and arrested he must have either looked suspicious to the surrounding public, or he was doing it somewhere very dodgy and deliberately giving people a view. The vast majority of people would not report someone peeing on a hiking trail in a bush or etc.

DH and I had to do a Sarah's Law request on FIL after MIL let slip that he had once been arrested for a serial crime against a child. No conviction as it never went to trial.

The police and a social worker came to our house and the disclosure was worse than we had been told. Very difficult situation as no conviction but multiple allegations by multiple children over multiple decades.

It has blown the family apart as only DH and I are following the advice of the police to keep DS away from FIL and we choose not to see him due to the nature of the alleged crimes also. Everyone else is carrying on as normal.

Be prepared for that to happen and for you to be criticised and shunned for requesting the information. We dont regret it though as now we can keep DS safe which is the only thing that actually matters.

I do think there is evidence that pornography addiction can lead people to search for more and more extreme content, including children. I know porn is very common and normalised in our society but personally I’m very anti and there’s clearly correlations between violent content online and young men’s expectations of more violent sex being normalised. So I absolutely agree it would make me see FIL differently.

My father was a police officer through the 70s and early 80s. Always said if they arrested a flasher the first thing they said was I was caught short officer, needed to pee, honest that was all. 🐂 💩
I wouldn’t leave the children with ILs if you or SIL aren’t going to be there.

Hmm, bit of a drip feed there, that the porn was involving a grandparent and grandchild. 🤢.

This combined with the whispering quietly and leading kids into another room would alert me.
Just don't leave your DC with him, whatever the outcome of your Sarah's law enquiry.

and yet you were ALL over that post yesterday about a concerned poster who is concerned about her 7 yo DD bathing with her estranged father, and you were telling any MNer who said 'well my dad/partner had baths with me/my kid when they were really young' that they were wrong, that a dad having a bath with their very young child was automatically suspect.

I can't see how that squares with a view that 'watching porn is nothing nefarious'. Hmmm.

He got caught because 2 police officers saw him walk up a flight of steps towards a bandstand park area, veer off the path and walk into a bush, @MrsTerryPratchett . I guess they followed him because they either thought he must be drunk and were concerned for his safety or he was going to buy drugs. It was in Arnold Circus in Shoreditch in the early hours of the morning. There was no one to flash, even the dealers had knocked off for the night.

Oh but porn is soooo empowering, don’t you know? Totally victimless and if you’re not absolutely delighted your elderly FiL is watching 2 Girls 1 Cup you’re basically Mary Whitehouse🙄

@OP Your FiL is watching incest porn? That is a HUGE red flag. Do not leave your kids with him out of your sight ever. It takes about 10 seconds to abuse a child.

You can be arrested for public urination and then charged with indecent exposure so it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.

Now, a man watching porn is nothing to be shocked by. If he can get it up, let him whack off in peace.

As a parent myself, I would urge you to not ignore your gut feelings. There are there for a reason, which is to protect our children. Irrespective of your findings, do not leave your children unattended with him and trust your intuition. I would rather be an overprotective mum than something nefarious happening to my children.

I do think there is evidence that pornography addiction can lead people to search for more and more extreme content

That's true, how many males would be satisfied with a photo of a woman on a beer can (oh those halcyon days 🙄) after the first time. Users need to up their content constantly and it will become more extreme the more they use. There would be no money in making illegal pornography if that wasn't the case.

If it was genuinely just peeing in public, years ago, a lot of people would have laughed about it, rather than shutting it down. I find that a bit suspicious.

I'd like to know why he tries to take DC into another room.

Please make a request using Sarah’s law . You will regret it if you don’t. As others have mentioned you might well be demonised by the rest of your husband’s family - all to often the perpetrators are the ones who have the sympathy.