Do all primary schools have behaviour issues?

[Wildflowers99]

Looking for a new primary for (well behaved, fairly academic) DD and without exception every OFSTED mentions things like ‘a significant number of children who struggle with appropriate behaviour’, or similar phrases to this.

It’s really disheartening. DD’s current school has a lot of children who are behind or struggle with behaviour and I was hoping to move her to a classroom environment better suited to her. We live in a very average area, some more deprived areas, some very middle class, but this seems to be an issue wherever I look.

Do I just give up and accept basically all primaries are like this?

all the primaries I have experienced have pupils who struggle with behaviour.

Some schools are better at dealing with behaviour but that's hard to see from the outside.

All schools will have children who struggle with behaviour, often not always in primary is due to undiagnosed SEND. It’s how well the school recognises what is the under laying cause and how the deal with it that is important.

It's like asking if there are any schools that don't have bullying. If they say they don't, run a mile.
All schools have bullying, it's how they deal with it, that's the issue.

Similarly if any school could tell you they had no children with behaviour issues, I would be dubious. Or at least realise that they couldn't guarantee that children would not struggle with behaviour at a later point or new children join the school. It's how the behaviour is managed (and probably, from your perspective, the impact on your child) that you need to consider.

My child is at a second primary now and it’s terrible. I am again looking to move him. Just to think of all the inappropriateness he’s exposed every day and the worst is when somebody is directly mean to him repeatedly. Who wants that for their child? I think schools need to send home children with unacceptable behaviour then and there, every time.
But of course they can’t, unsafe home environments etc,… it’s all become far too complex.

Yes. I teach about 10 schools now a specialist subject. Between one third and one half of each class have. SEN of some kind. There is so much disruption that I get through about half of the material I would have achieved 20 years ago.

Some have more than others.

some are good at either managing out or discouraging parents from applying.

There was a school in our area that a few years ago was continuously praised and by recommendations of parents anyone with SEN was advised to go there. It was so good at dealing with SEN that any parent with a child with SEN would try to get in. A few years down the line, it is avoided by anyone without SEN and they are massively struggling with numbers when every other school is rammed.

And the most popular primary now is the one which gets slated for their SEN provision.

Ours does not have a recent Ofsted but behaviour doesn’t stand out as an issue. Our DD sounds similar to yours and is happy at school. There are some students with various behavioural issues but they all seem to get along in general and we are happy with her progress.

I don’t think all schools have problems with behaviour by any means. Certainly most schools might go through a period where they struggle with a particular child or class, but if behaviour is persistently and pervasively bad then you need to move. My kids’ school has few problems with behaviour and when problems arise they tend to get on top of it fairly quickly.

Our school has a lot of children with SEN but they are well-supported.

I have worked in Infant and Junior school for 13 years and can tell you that you will always get a minority of children who struggle to behave. My current school is in a fairly affluent area, and we still have children (abit a few) who struggle to behave. People think behaviour issues are limited to deprived areas, and yes there may be a higher level, but in all honesty behaviour issues exist in all schools (on a varying degree) in all areas, regardless if deprived or not. It's how the school deals with such issues, that you need to be more aware about. What are their expectations of behaviour in students? What happens if a child doesn't meet those expectations? What are their behaviour policies? Equally how are children rewarded for good behaviour.

Not all behaviour issues come from SEN children though. Some of them are very capable of behaving but choose not to because of the way they are brought up outside the school.

Yes i now assume all schools have gone a bit crazy and homeschool. I moved my kid from one primary school to another and then to a highschool and watched each time as a new headmaster turned up and the schools gradually descended into chaos. These were lovely sleepy schools turned into jungles by the arrival of new head and deputy head.

I think it depends on what the reports mean by ‘a significant number of children who struggle with appropriate behaviour’. What do they look at to define that? Do they take into account SEN if looking at behaviour reports? Do they just look at a figure on a spreadsheet and say the comment.

All schools I am aware of either with my DC, our friends DC or our friends who are teachers have issues with behaviour at some level. Low level disruption to higher level issues. My DS class alone has about 7 children currently on behaviour plans (My DS is one of them). BUT the school is addressing it, working with parents and plans are in place. Speaking to DS teacher, it isn't a school issue and that the previous school she worked at had the same issues. If anything it is an age development issue (basically expected of his age to push and test boundaries, some just take longer to get with the programme than others)
A whole host of things can kick off a who host off behaviour issues - change in teacher half way through a year, a unsuitable teacher, change in headteacher or SLT team, number of SEN children, children with behaviour issues outside of school, children with difficult home lives etc.

If this year has taught me anything, its not about the amount of children who struggle with behaviour, its about how the school address it and support those children struggling.

The only reason a primary school would have no children who find behaviour expectations difficult is if they were so un-inclusive that they were "suggesting" families move onto other schools etc.

What differs vastly, of course, is how schools manage and support those behaviours, in a way that offers the best environment for all children.

I think it depends what your yardstick for 'behaviour issues' is. I think all schools will have some students who struggle with behaviour, and they always have. My sleepy little village primary in the 90s did (though then they were just called naughty kids, rather than kids with behavioural issues). That isn't the same thing as having widespread behavioural issues that really make it hard for other students to learn. My children's primary school definitely has kids that struggle with behaviour; it doesn't have a widespread problem with behaviour.

This will turn into another SEN bashing thread, so I will put in my two cents right away. My DC is at a pre-school attached to a private school, and I know that there a lot a of behavioural issues coming from the children without any (obvious) additional needs, by all accounts neurotypical and fully verbal etc. on the other hand my own DC has very clear SEN but is well supported. In other words, you are going to suck it up that in every school there are issues with behaviour across every different type of child whether SEN or not.

My DD is at a smaller school and there is one boy who is very disruptive and at times, dangerous. There may be an element of SEN but ultimately his parents are crap at parenting and have no boundaries and absolutely spoil him. They have been asked to leave at the end of the year as so many parents emailed in saying they were not to be put in the same class as him.

That’s appalling that other parents have gotten involved. Children are entitled to their privacy when they go to school, no matter the level of SEN, or SEMH or home life issues. That’s actually disgusting you should all be ashamed. It’s the schools fault too as they have breached privacy for that child and not made reasonable adjustments for the child.

There is the odd good one but pretty hard to tell unless you spend time there or have recommendations that you would trust. I would say that 80% have wild behaviour and minimal sanctions. Think kids telling teachers to fuck off, being violent, smashing stuff up, running around the building during lessons followed by some wet member of SLT saying "that's not ok" on repeat and then giving them a treat. Total 2 tier behaviour policies and totally unfair on the good kids.

I teach small groups at dd's school (e
G. I am an artist and teach sketching), ive had her whole class at some point and from what ive seen they are fine, sometimes i have to tell them to not mess and stop chatting around but for 5/6 yos they are fine.

The parents would know for the disruption and about him being a danger based on what their own child tells them. I wouldn’t assume there’s been a breach of confidence from staff.

I actually hope more parents emailed in general whenever they had an issue directly impacting their child because the more reports the school gets the clearer it is for them what they are dealing with. Most of us just speak to a class teacher instead and that just leads to nowhere.

DD goes to a really small village school which is sort in the middle of nowhere. Nearly everyone- with the exception of a handful of children who live in the village, which is tiny- has to drive to get to it. It sounds a bit horrible to say but that filters out a lot of social problems because only parents that are quite invested in their children's education bother. Because it's rural as well, the kids get loads of outdoor time which helps behaviour. I recommend having a look in your area for tiny schools that no-one has heard of.

But if we accept that every child should be in the right learning environment for them then that’s going to look different for your DC than it is for mine. Mine would suit a school with a very low SEN intake, a very orderly classroom (kids coming and going with their 121s following them doesn’t facilitate this) and work which challenges her. It just feels like such a school doesn’t exist.