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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

954 replies

CheekyFawn · 25/03/2025 21:22

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

OP posts:
ItTook9Years · 26/03/2025 18:34

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 18:29

I can only speak for myself, but I definitely do respect working mums. Very much. I'm not blaming them for doing what they need to do. That's not the point. The point is that we need workplace cultures that make situations where families are forced to put babies in childcare centres for 12 hour days become a thing of the past. People deserve a better work / life balance and children deserve better than this.

Who is forcing people to do that?

Katemax82 · 26/03/2025 18:57

My husband has taken 2 weeks paternity leave and had to do almost everything for our 3 kids because I had a c section. He normally drives freight trains for 10 hours at a time on average. He can't wait to get back to work by all accounts

TankFlyBossW4lk · 26/03/2025 19:14

I'm really struggling with this. I don't expect to be respected because I have children and work, so why would you expect for women who have children and don't work to be any different. I just expect a standard level of respect. Just like all my other colleagues and non working friends.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 19:30

hazelnutvanillalatte · 26/03/2025 12:32

So what was 'clap for the NHS' about? Why do workplaces have award ceremonies? Of course external validation and respect is important.

Show quote history

It was all patronising bullshit. They needed resources not having people make twats of themselves thinking they were making a difference. They weren't. I also hate it when organisations hold 'engagement days' or whatever you want to call them and block smoke up each other's arses. They tell the staff how valued they are etc when everyone knows it's a toxic environment.

I think it would be frankly embarrassing to be 'employee of the month'! It's all so performative and inauthentic. Pay me fairly, treat me fairly and consistently with others, support me when I need it, and thank me when I add value - that's the extent of it. All of the other stuff is, frankly, bollocks.

Trickabrick · 26/03/2025 19:31

BinChicken1 · 26/03/2025 01:46

Ok. I mean I guess I just don’t really understand why we need “validation” for raising the children that we chose to have. I love my girls. They make me happy. My work makes me happy (most of the time). I couldn’t give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks about any of that. It’s just interesting to me that it seems that some SAHMs really do care about that. It seems to be important to them that “other people” think the work they do is valid and important. Why care so much? Just get on with it.

I agree with this, it always seems to be SAHMs who need validation from others about a decision they’ve made to not have a job outside the home. Just own your decision to be a SAHM, why does anyone need to respect it?

Abridget7 · 26/03/2025 19:33

Mumsnet is very anti-SAHM. I’ve read some awful comments made towards women who have for whatever reason, through choice or circumstance, taken this path.
In the real world, I haven’t witnessed any behaviour where a working mum is being disrespectful towards a SAHM and vice versa. Everyone has their tough days, whether it is juggling work or juggling kids at home.

Diorchristian · 26/03/2025 19:34

I agree op, it's hard hard work but it's become such an emotive subject which is too touchy for some working mums.
I'm back at work now and I've learned the hard way now it upsets other mums when I say I took x time out (and no wealthy dh either we were scraping by, charity shop stuff, freecyle, reduced food no friperies).

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 19:34

muggart · 26/03/2025 15:10

I am a SAHM to a 3 year old and a 5 month old. Thanks to mumsnet, I know there is a general attitude out there that it’s the easier option than working but it doesn’t jive with what I see in real life which is:

  1. When WOHMs have their second child and take a year maternity they never seem to remove their older toddlers from nursery because it’s suddenly too much hard work to look after them both
  2. Comments I’ve heard from both nannies and mums that you shouldn’t hire one person as a “nanny/ housekeeper” because it’s too much to expect 1 person to do both jobs properly (yet a SAHM does that and more and it’s easy apparently)
  3. All the local mums I know openly put their kids in front of the tv at weekends and when they are with them in the holidays because they need a break. Behaviour that I know SAHMs would be judged for and certainly shouldn't be necessarily if parenting is so easy. (I don't judge this either btw)

My own view is that there are too many variables to make any big generalisations, but nobody should be a SAHM if they want status in society. It’s something that you do for yourself and your family and you can’t worry about what other people think.

I need to correct your misapprehension on point 1. If WOHMs were to take their elder child/ren out of nursery, they would lose the place they need when they return to work!!!

Point 2, I know nothing about nanny/housekeepers but am sure they exist, and why not?

And 3, are you seriously trying to claim that SAHMs don't ever put their children in front of the TV??!! Maybe they just don't admit it!!

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/03/2025 19:36

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 17:33

What is WOW about families being able to expect a more reasonable work / life balance? The onus needs to be in employers. Much more flexibility for mums and dads so that babies and children don't have to do such long days in nurseries or schools. At the moment, policies are all aimed at parents working longer and longer hours and children spending longer and longer days at nursery or school.

I do agree that employers need to be more flexible. Dh and I both worked incredibly flexibly when dd was little and we relied very little on paid childcare. And as an employer, I bend over backwards to offer flexible working arrangements for my staff, but I do appreciate not everyone has this luxury.

I didn't feel that I wanted mine in childcare for long hours when she was little either, and we were fortunate that we could both maintain our careers without having to do that. We were also fortunate enough to have been able to afford a wonderful nanny to look after dd in our own home and to work so flexibly that we were able to share the vast majority of the childcare between us.

That was very important to me at the time, but honestly, I'm not sure it really mattered as much as I thought it did. I had friends whose kids were in nursery for long hours every day, friends who worked part time and friends who were SAHPs... now that all of our kids are adults, I genuinely can't see that it made any difference at all. The ones who were in childcare for long hours do not seem to be any less bonded with their parents as adults. They don't appear to be any less successful, any less happy or any less healthy.

Honestly, there are so many other variables that can have an impact. Not least, the mental wellbeing of the parents. I have noticed that unhappy parents very often produce unhappy children, regardless of whether they stay at home or go out to work. Some people will be happier if they can stay at home with their kids. Others will be happier if they can maintain their careers. As long as they are engaged and loving parents who are proactively taking steps to ensure that their kids are well cared for at all times, the kids won't notice much of a difference.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 19:37

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 15:35

We had our kids in 2003, 2005 and 2007 and I was a SAHM and honestly, it was more normal than not. Totally unremarkable. Never felt judged or devalued - it literally never occurred to me. Where else would the kids be? Most women in the area were also SAH mums - many had nannies or other after school support as well. Everybody had a cleaner, nobody was doing housework. They were doing stuff with the kids. If anything, I was judged for not having a nanny or someone to stay home with the younger ones while I took the elder one to a club or whatever. Even men (eg DH's of friends) thought it was weird that had no 'help' with 3 DC. They used to ask me how I coped. Being there for your kids was the general 'norm' then. Nobody once asked anyone when they were going back to work. Certsinly, I don't know anyone who used a full-time nursery eg. 8-5. The whole 'SAHM value' issue that gets pedalled on MN was a non-issue back then. Either something has drastically shifted in society, or MN is not representative. I don't know.

Nonsense. I had mine in 1997, 1999 and 2003 and all but one of the mums I knew worked, mainly full-time.

Absolutely none of that was the case in my experience.

Shubbypubby · 26/03/2025 19:37

Most parents are trying their best, whatever their set up. There should be more focus on abusive and neglectful parents rather than whether they work or stay at home.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 26/03/2025 19:39

@spaceisfree I wholeheartedly agree with you - my kids have gone to nursery (admittedly for three days) and I try to reduce the use of wrap around care - but it’s a delicate balance, always between economic activity and child rearing, the latter isn’t value anywhere near enough by our society in terms of the benefits to children and society as a whole.

Longma · 26/03/2025 19:42

Those who are working out of the home and bringing up children and running a home are also doing the household chores. I don’t like the idea that some people feel that working mums have it any easier, they don’t. They are still a full time mum, as well as doing household jobs too.

None of it is easy. When people chose to have children they accept that life will be a bit busier and trickier for a good while.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 26/03/2025 19:45

I have spent so long toying with the idea of being a SAHM that I’ve lost the opportunity- my youngest is 6months from starting school.

I personally think the most important thing is being empowered and having the choice to decide. I have always felt that if I needed to, I could quit work, supported by DH and nothing much would change in terms of our lifestyle and ability to provide for the life.

I have chosen to work, decided to go PT for mostly selfish reasons - to keep my skills up to date and maintain my ability to be independent should I need to.

If I had to stay at home or had to work I imagine I would feel trapped and incredibly pressured - the absence of that pressure is what makes my life comfortable not whether I work or not.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 26/03/2025 19:46

Longma · 26/03/2025 19:42

Those who are working out of the home and bringing up children and running a home are also doing the household chores. I don’t like the idea that some people feel that working mums have it any easier, they don’t. They are still a full time mum, as well as doing household jobs too.

None of it is easy. When people chose to have children they accept that life will be a bit busier and trickier for a good while.

The demands are so different when working and balancing a house.

ThatMrsM · 26/03/2025 19:47

Bodione · 26/03/2025 14:56

I love it when someone starts a thread to get some validation and compliments, then gets increasingly belligerent in their replies as people tell them to get over themselves. They're my favourite type.

Edited

The thing is OP is not a SAHM, she's on mat leave from a full time job. She's got a baby and toddler and perhaps is finding it more difficult than working. The way I read it was that she wasn't seeking validation for herself, but I guess maybe realising that she now has more respect for SAHMs after being off work with two young children. Most posters seem to think she's a SAHM looking for compliments.

SouthLondonMum22 · 26/03/2025 19:47

Abridget7 · 26/03/2025 19:33

Mumsnet is very anti-SAHM. I’ve read some awful comments made towards women who have for whatever reason, through choice or circumstance, taken this path.
In the real world, I haven’t witnessed any behaviour where a working mum is being disrespectful towards a SAHM and vice versa. Everyone has their tough days, whether it is juggling work or juggling kids at home.

I’ve read awful comments about working mothers. I was called sick for putting my baby in nursery and asked why I bothered having children.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/03/2025 19:49

Abridget7 · 26/03/2025 19:33

Mumsnet is very anti-SAHM. I’ve read some awful comments made towards women who have for whatever reason, through choice or circumstance, taken this path.
In the real world, I haven’t witnessed any behaviour where a working mum is being disrespectful towards a SAHM and vice versa. Everyone has their tough days, whether it is juggling work or juggling kids at home.

I really don't think mumsnet is "anti sahm".

I do think that the majority of posters on Mumsnet are against women becoming SAHMs if they are not adequately protected from a financial perspective e.g. through marriage. That's just common sense.

I also think that the majority of posters on Mumsnet will react negatively towards posters who are determined to put SAHMs on a pedestal - e.g. by demanding that society should value SAHMs more, insisting that it's the hardest job in the world, insinuating that SAHPs are somehow superior parents etc.

And I think many posters will question those who seem to believe that they have a right to SAH if their partners aren't so keen on the idea, because they believe that it has to be a decision that works for the whole family and not just one person.

However, I have seen vanishingly few posters on here over the years that have any objection to individuals choosing to be SAHMs if that's what works for them and their families. A few who sneer and look down on them perhaps, and some who think that they're letting the side down from a feminist point of view, but such posters are very much in the minority from what I've seen.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 19:57

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 17:15

I think we need to be honest that long days in childcare are not ideal for very young children / babies. That's not to say they will be damaged for life, but let's face it, for too many families today, it's an economic necessity rather than a positive choice made in the child's interests, in the majority of cases.

There is a place for nurseries after the age of about 2.5 / 3 years when toddlers start to meaningfully socialise, etc. But a few hours in the day is enough and they really don't need to be there 5 days a week 'to socialise.'

Because of the cost of living requiring two parents to work in more cases than not. things like nurseries that take tiny babies for ten hour days are marketed as 'enabling.' But really mums (and dads) shouldn't need to be rushing babies to nurseries for breakfast and then picking them up at 5 or 6, as millions of parents are now required to do.

And now the govt tell families "oh look you lucky people - you now don't even have to bother giving your school kids breakfast. You can take them to school even earlier because breakfast is now the schools job. Then put them in after school clubs too if you need to."

It might be convenient for parents but you can't tell me any of this is in the interests of most babies and children, except the severely deprived. Instead of breakfast clubs and 'wrap around' care and nurseries that will take babies for 12 hour days, the govt need to be putting children's needs first and foremost. At present, priorities are backwards. They should be incentivising companies to let mums and/ or dads work more flexibly, at least in the preschool years. If not even giving your own child some toast or whatever in the mornings now is being framed as 'progress', I think society needs a drastic rethink.

I think I need some of whatever it is that you're smoking...

Calamitousness · 26/03/2025 19:59

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice that’s truly awful. I’m sorry you faced that attitude.
You are exactly talking about what I’m saying though. Those are your choices. Your business. Respect for each other should understand we will make different choices in life. Some out of different world view. Some borne of necessity. Either way. All valid.
what we should base our respect upon is how we see others treat us and others around us. Not our decisions.

Longma · 26/03/2025 20:02

DeepRoseFish · 26/03/2025 02:48

Oh god this thread is depressing.

Yes they deserve respect. There is a significant level of disrespect which you can see from your responses.

It is really hard work and not work that is valued by society at all. But that’s the patriarchy for you!

But do they need any more respect that any other mother? More than those who chose to work out of the home?
and what about the fathers who decide to be sat at home fathers - do they deserve the same level of respect?

Everyone deserves respect - that should be the norm for most, if not all people.
but whether a SAHM needs more respect if validation than anyone else? Why?

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 20:04

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 17:53

A childminder is not a parent. They are not looking to bond in that way and nor should they be. They are there because they are paid (and the pay is diabolically low, but that's another thread).

You have a very poor opinion of childminders, don't you?

ThatMrsM · 26/03/2025 20:10

Longma · 26/03/2025 20:02

But do they need any more respect that any other mother? More than those who chose to work out of the home?
and what about the fathers who decide to be sat at home fathers - do they deserve the same level of respect?

Everyone deserves respect - that should be the norm for most, if not all people.
but whether a SAHM needs more respect if validation than anyone else? Why?

Show quote history

I don't think anyone is saying SAHMs deserve more respect than working mums. They are saying SAHMs deserve more respect&value than they are currently getting.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 20:15

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 18:29

I can only speak for myself, but I definitely do respect working mums. Very much. I'm not blaming them for doing what they need to do. That's not the point. The point is that we need workplace cultures that make situations where families are forced to put babies in childcare centres for 12 hour days become a thing of the past. People deserve a better work / life balance and children deserve better than this.

And how would you propose society achieves that?

A society that was able to move to a norm of working from home where people could, and is now pushing back even on that.

I don't think you are going to get much joy on that score. And even if you did - who will it disadvantage yet again, but women?!

spaceisfree · 26/03/2025 20:22

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 26/03/2025 20:04

You have a very poor opinion of childminders, don't you?

Show quote history

Childminders may be lovely (mostly), but ultimately it's a job for them, no more. They are not family to your child.They don't love them, nor seek to bond with them like a parent or relative. If they did, that would be worrying.

Childminders are on not much more than MW. This is hardly going to inspire them to go above and beyond, is it? If we need further evidence of internalised misogyny and devaluation of childcare and all related to it (ie women for the most part) there it is. It is disgusting that cleaners are paid more than nursery staff. Says it all really. Society has it priorities backwards, in my view. Price if everything, value of nothing.