Why are we letting children call the shots?

[trivi]

Apparently the advice now is to let your child get down from the table when then feel like it during dinner etc. If they don’t feel like eating and want to play with their toys, coming and going as they please, then that should be permitted.
Please help me understand the rationale for this? And at what age should this stop? Surely this doesn’t prepare them for school? Or life in general for that matter 😅 AIBU for thinking this advice is ludicrous??

I agree, we should make them stand in the corner for hrs on end. Bring back the belt..🤨🤨🤨

Trained, managed, contained, civilised, socialised, taught, lots of different words, we all know what they mean in terms of bringing up a child to eventually be a responsible member of society who understands the rules of living in society.

It’s not “training” them to juggle plates in a circus or walk on their hands, it’s about teaching them how to negotiate the often unspoken rules about expectations of behaviour.

No. We don’t all know. Words have meaning. So if I’m dealing with someone who chooses to use the word trained when it comes to a child that tends to show up as a red flag for me.

God this thread is depressing. Who gives a shit if someone leaves the table when you are eating?

I think I’d need to know the context of this advice. Is there some kind of serious fussy eating element? Has there been major power struggles about coming to the table?

My children as toddlers left the table after they finished. Now they are older they wait until we are finished. There is no official advice about this.

You seem to have ignored the massive middle ground between, at one extreme, beating the child to within an inch of their life, and the other extreme of letting them do what they want, when they want, with no consequences. That middle ground is huge!

But THE OP says about the child coming and going from the table so they obviously haven't finished. If they've finished and asked to leave the table then I don't see an issue but back and forth during the meal is ridiculous

Apologies, it just seemed strange to me that you would mention your nephew’s table manners rather than your own experience of parenting.

I’m amazed. So you sit down for your regular Sunday lunch at a table in a restaurant with your 18mo child. You face at least a 30min wait before any food actually arrives at the table. Then maybe another 30mins between courses. There’s usually only so much colouring/chatting that will entertain a normal 18mo before they get bored.

Are you seriously telling me that not one of your many charges, at this age, wanted to get down from the high chair at any point?

If so, than I suggest either they were very unusual, you’ve forgotten what it was really like, or you rarely actually ever went out to a restaurant.

Or a 4th possibility that they were noisy and grumbling in their high chair while you refused to get them out.

Trained is totally different to socialised.

But your post demonstrates - many paths to a well-behaved 6yo.

Modelling is more important than 'training' and when it comes to training, methods are everything - some are abusive and result in different issues.

@trivi

Family member got given this advice from the health visitor, the child’s in school 😵‍💫

Do you know why the HV is advising parents of a school age child? Has the child got issues around food? I could understand them saying this, in that case, to take the pressure off meal times perhaps? Assuming a young child?

Nail on the head. And mostly learned by watching and observing those around them, i.e. their immediate family. If the family behave properly, with manners, respect, following rules, etc., it becomes ingrained behaviour for the child to do the same. They don't need "training", it's just automatic/instinct to emulate those around them.

If their immediate family have no boundaries, no respect, etc., and are basically feral, then it's no surprise when the child grows up feral too!

I bet there were also things your child was great at which aren't shown in the context of this conversation!

My son might want to get down and explore from his high chair. He also loves to tidy up, wipes down the table, clears up all his food, and puts everything in the bin as soon as he's finished with it.

I have plenty of friends with babies who sit still in restaurants but leave the place filthy with food and crayons all over. My son is a brilliant cleaner/tidier. Just not a good sitter.

No-one actually. People (children) have always been free to excuse themselves, but it's rude to be eating while running around or to be constantly swinging back and forth to the table / making a general nuisance of yourself.

The OP has carefully given zero explanation/context about why the HV is advising this for a child of this age...

I don't know where that advice is from.
Agree with others who said that it should be ignored.
I don't know whether I would be considered a permissive parent though - DD has breakfast sitting on the floor with a plate whilst I read her stories. She eats it in her own time, she stops eating when she's full.
At dinner she always sits at the table. We eat together. She sits there until I've finished. No problems.
At lunch sometimes we have a picnic on the floor. She has her teddy with her and pretends to feed it some. She still has to sit whilst she's eating and can't go off and play. It's not her that calls the shots, it's me. When it's unmessy food and we have time I don't mind having fun. But dinner is always the same, at the table.

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis, l am afraid you ARE one of “those” parents. You need to be the adult and, firmly but kindly, make him stay at the table/in a high chair until has finished eating. If he is not ready to be taken out to eat without disturbing others then you do not take him. I will break this to you gently - all children will behave like your little boy given the chance, but the reason most don’t is because they have adults for parents who take charge. Children need and appreciate boundaries and rules as they feel safe and know where they stand. A lack of rules and expectations is terrifying for them.

DS will now sit at a table if we go out, it was a nightmare when he was younger though as he'd constantly run off and I'd constantly have to chase him and bring him back. He was actually better as a toddler, when we'd get complimented on his good behaviour.

We just didn't go out much for a bit, or if we did we'd take him to Costa as he was ok in a Costa (all very similar, food always the same).

Now we can go out, but keep an eye and if he seems to be getting overwhelmed ask him if he wants to go for a walk outside. Unfortunately family always want to meet up in dog friendly pubby places, and DS struggles in that environment, but wants to see them ( probably is most interested in seeing the dog as he loves her).

Erm, I don't know ANY adults who get up and run around whilst eating food then sit down again. As above, my son has picked up wiping down tables, putting things in bins, fetching me things, helping me dress him. Far from feral, just very active.

So doing all that was completely pointless then lol

Child friendly means they have a menu for children and a play area. It does not mean that the restaurant IS the play area

Health visitors only work with children under school age.

You couldn't be more wrong about "all children".

Believe me when I say when I have worked with the top ed psychs in the country on huge early years projects about behaviour and development. There is a huge range of normal behaviour, that is way outside of parental influence.

I'm not saying that I always navigate my son's behaviour perfectly (nobody does!). But I am probably much better informed about normal child development than most parents, and the different types of infant behaviours. That's not a boast, just a fact.

Children are all 'natural born explorers' - humans are naturally nosey creatures. Some are more cautious than others and more wary of danger but curiosity about the world is born in.

However, humans have to learn about social behaviours. We need to have boundaries when we live together or we make each other unhappy/unsafe. These boundaries are not natural - they are social/cultural behaviours and agreed in our groups. They are passed on to our children.

If your child is allowed to roam about freely at home - they will expect to do this everywhere (it is their normal).

If you don't teach them the social norms of the outside world (for eating or learning or being inside rather than outside etc.) - then they will not easily fit in.

This could be really miserable for them. Eventually someone else will have to teach them. This is likely to be tougher for your child than if you do it at an early age.

You don't need to damage your child while helping them to meet normal/average/general expectations -for when this is required. It can be fun to learn to do 'the right thing' for different places and different activities. (The approval from the adults of the outside world doesn't matter all that much but it is great for a child to feel it!)

Consequences for asking to leave the table ..

Is it a home or a borstal... Jesus wept...

I think I was 14 when I stopped asking if I might get down from the table. If we had guests the answer was no until everyone had finished eating. It’s not rocket science, nor is it abusive for children to be told they must have consideration for adults.