Why are we letting children call the shots?

[trivi]

Apparently the advice now is to let your child get down from the table when then feel like it during dinner etc. If they don’t feel like eating and want to play with their toys, coming and going as they please, then that should be permitted.
Please help me understand the rationale for this? And at what age should this stop? Surely this doesn’t prepare them for school? Or life in general for that matter 😅 AIBU for thinking this advice is ludicrous??

Telling them off doesn't help with meltdowns either though, does it?

I mean I agree that there's no point validating their feelings if they are having an extreme emotional response because that's the time for a different approach.

It's not helpful if they are just telling parents what not to do without providing constructive support/courses/training in therapeutic or positive parenting, though.

Because unfettered liberalism has everything back to front in this country.

DS is nearly 21, Dd is 18 but they absolutely asked to leave the table, but to honest rarely did, they like family meal times. From 6 or 7 they were also expected to clear their plates away and stack the dishwasher after dinner.

I mean this isn't 'the advice now' though is it? There's no one source of advice, and even if you took an average of ALL the advice that's out there then it probably wouldn't come close to this - just look at this thread for example.

I don't really like labelling myself a 'gentle parent' but am more aligned with that approach than not, but I've never seen this advice and it's never been how we do things either. We eat together at the table, if we're at home and DD has finished she can get down and go back to playing, but there's no coming and going - to be fair it rarely happens this way because if there's still food around then she's still interested! If we're eating out or we have visitors then she stays till everyone is done - but if it's a particularly lengthy meal then she might draw/ colour/ play a quiet game.

Some parents may be choosing to do this because it's easier/ avoids tantrums etc, but it's unlikely to be because they've been formally advised to do so.

This is not advice I've ever subscribed to. I've just been on another thread where a poster's adult child is demanding their mother funds their expensive postgraduate education and accomodation alongside a round the world trip during a gap year. And the mother was saying yes before other posters put her right! This is where it starts - a spoilt child becomes an entitled and demanding adult. Part of good parenting is teaching kids they can't have what they want when they want.

What advice? Never heard this.

I hope I never meet you and Young Colombus in a restaurant. Amazing his exploration doesn't extend to exploring some boundaries 🤦🏾‍♀️.

My primary age children have impeccable table manners, but it sounds to me like you are talking about very young children. With the best will in the world it can be hard to force a 2 year old to stay at the table if they don’t want to. It doesn’t mean they will still be doing it age 6, it’s just a work in progress. It is ok hold children of different ages to different standards of behaviour.

At home my children eat wherever they want, the older ones choose to eat in their rooms, younger ones will sit at the table but my 5 year old will get up and walk about. They all have ASD. We rarely go out but if we do they will all sit at a table ,the expectation is clearly set out and they have coping strategies if it’s difficult for them, the older two will likely in that situation not be able to eat at all but they have a drink and then can rest and ‘get over’ the situation when home. The youngest can really struggle but we take books and colouring and one of us can go outside or to the car if they get really noisy.

If your kid is "exploring" round my table while I'm trying to eat in peace with my family while you watch and let him do what the fuck he wants, I'll tell him off myself.

The OP is written in a goady tone!

In the pre-school phase, normal to get up and down.

Primary school age, for regular family meals once finished (not necessary to clear plate), ask to leave the table.

Primary age, special occasions or at other houses, stay at the table bored.

Forcing pre-school kids to sit too long teaches nothing and gives everyone else indigestion. The point is you adjust expectations appropriately.

@trivi , I find it best to ignore some of the advice. My parents, extended family and siblings managed to raise reasonably adjusted children, so I tend to follow their proven methods. I adopt what works and leave what doesn't.

I do feel sorry for some of the children I encounter, as they just don't know what to do with themselves and all the freedom they have.

Because "we" are fools.
Going to be so many undisciplined, unemployable adults in the years to come......

The word "Apparently" in the OP is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. It reminds me of "Apparently they can send you to jail for 5 years for saying something nasty about Keir Starmer" or "Apparently every migrant who washes up at Dover gets a 6-bedroom mansion and a BMW". Could we perhaps be told who is giving this alleged advice, so that we can judge whether this thread is just rage bait?

Said every older generation ever.

I’ve been stopped and ASKED. Has anyone been stopped from travelling or entering a country?

Quite.

Apparently = I'm going to wind you up and watch you dance.

I don’t know, as I see a lot of professionals on a daily basis rushing about and eating on the go so maybe these children will be prepared for their fast paced future lives where lunch breaks aren’t a thing!

I was going to say the same thing.

Both of mine went through a phase at around 18m-2ish when it was very hard to get them to sit at the table so we did lunch on the go - e.g.a lunchbox at the playground where they would play, then come back for a bit of sandwich, then play again etc

They both sit very nicely at the table now they are primary aged.

My baby is only 9 months, but we're already all eating at the table together. I personally plan to always eat at the table, but let Friday night be a pizza in front of the TV kind of night, as a mini celebration to the end of the week, and relaxed way to start the weekend. I won't start this until maybe Y3 though.

I agree that children need to learn basic social etiquette and to eat without getting up and down. I think there can be slightly different rules for home and out. At home, I'd personally allow my child to go if they'd finished eating, asked politely, and put their dishes in the sink or etc. Restaurants you obviously have to sit still, but I'd be fine with a book or colouring when finished.

Letting children free roam in a restaurant isn't fair on other diners. If my 9mo is getting bored and angry, I personally pick her up and take her a brief walk (held walk) to the bathroom and show her around if toys aren't working, or to the bar. If it's nice I'd take her outside. When she's a toddler, if it was nice I'd also briefly take her outside for a little breather. Yes we all need to learn to sit at a table, but it's very unreasonable to expect children that young to remain at a table for a couple of hours. Just don't inconvenience other diners with it.

Holding very young children to the standards of adults is unfair. Most grown adults also like a break to stretch their legs in long boring situations, such as planes or work meetings. No normal person outside of this forum is going to be judging a woman walking her baby around a little if she isn't getting in the way. It's better than crying!

I've never heard this advice anywhere OP?

Where did you hear it?

This is pretty unfair. I agree with this poster to an extent, if you forcible strap a toddler into a high chair when they don’t want to be there you are just going to get a screaming tantrum.

Exploring a restaurant doesn’t mean bothering other diners. I often used to take my babies for a little walk around to look at pictures / ornaments / the fire / out the windows etc if they were getting a bit fed up. This is fine to do in the right restaurant.

As I said, my own children now have better table manners than many adults I know so I don’t think I went too far wrong.

Yep, that's the normal way of things.

If you set age-appropriate standards and adjust, it'll usually be just fine.

Family member got given this advice from the health visitor, the child’s in school 😵‍💫

Sit at the table eh? A good proportion of the kids on my council estate don't even know how to use cutlery.