The most shocking thing about the maternity enquiries is how unshocked I am.

[GreyandWhiteBathMat]

Reading this this morning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn8n3nyrlo

Which prompted me to read East Kents enquiry, I'm maybe a third of the way through. While I am angry and frustrated reading it nothing has shocked me. It's completely in line with my own experiences in my local (not under enquiry) maternity ward 25 years ago. The arrogance, dismissal and casual cruelty of the midwifery staff there is well known. I didn't have issues with obstetricians who were, on the whole, great if not particularly visible.

Why is this? Why are these features so common? I lean towards it being a long standing issue with midwifery education. It just seems so pervasive in a way I haven't seen across other services.

Same OP - my DD and I could easily have been more childbirth death statistics, same with my two best friends and their DC - and all due to actions/inactions of NHS staff. In my experience, the midwives & nurses were entirely incompetent, entirely lacking in knowledge and entirely bereft of any sort of human compassion, they were purely & simply rude af. But the fact that they didnt seem remotely capable of doing their jobs is the scariest part. I can’t imagine that has changed in the past 10 years.

I had a very similar experience.

And a midwife fucking milked me without my consent!

I had two good births on NHS - only bad experience was overnight pnd wards.

My Dsis had awful experience with first all way though pg and birth.

Then I had my third not that far from sister having moved- very near one of the big scandal area with many staff having worked and trained in scandal area. It was so awful we complained in end - and management agreed we had a case and now ebverything would be better but if anything care got worse - lucky I give birth easily else me and/or my youngest would be dead. It was frankly unbelivable.

However while not unique experience at all - not listening to mothers knowing better ignoring data changing notes afterwards having a really poor attitude to mothers- etc but we were still minoirty - by by time I left area 7 years later we weren't and I knew mothers who lost babies preventably. That was 8 years ago - I don't think it's improved since as cuts will have made it worse.

I think attitudes and poor practises have slow spread out and proliferated- along side shortages and cuts - so no not surprised at all.

After the birth of my first child, I used to fantasise about hunting down the MWs and the doctors that “cared” for me and torturing them like they tortured me. Not a healthy way to spend the first few months of motherhood. I had home births (I always called the MW too late to interfere) with my other 3 DC because I couldn’t face returning to the hospital. I cannot watch childbirth on TV or talk to anyone about it without cringing.

Nothing will improve the NHS maternity services. Mothers and babies will continue to die and “lessons will be learnt” - women are not listened to and they are not valued. I cannot ever see this changing.

I think that it is a bit of a spiral - the NHS spends a LOT of money on litigation (brain damaging a child is very expensive for care for life and the emphasis on vaginal birth at all costs and keeping alive a turf war with doctors and understaffing has all contributed to this).

As a result, the NHS has become defensive, so if they do anything for you they have to write down (in my Trust anyway - oddly, it feels as if they don’t have to write down that they haven’t offered you anything!), so you’re kind of penalised as a midwife for being kind and effective with lots more paperwork. This must be very demoralising.

I’ve had some absolutely terrible care and some great care whilst having my two babies, but I think that what struck me most was the indifference. I was induced with my first and it took a long time - baby was back to back and I did a lot of all fours and walking in our room (all private rooms in our hosp, which is great, save that you have to be prepared to push the buzzer otherwise no one is coming to see if you are ok) and around the hospital with my husband. Husband went to sleep for a couple of hours on the floor in the middle of the night and I couldn’t sleep so I did rounds of the ward, walked past the desk dozens of times. No one asked me how I was, or even smiled at me in hours. Was just super weird. And there were two midwives at the desk having a cup of tea and a chat almost throughout.

I think that the paperwork puts HCPs off volunteering on our postnatal ward and they just rely on the buzzer. But it’s probably also understaffing (not just understaffing though, because I got a sulky HCA very quickly when I pressed mine to ask for my syringes of colostrum from the fridge). I had a dicey EMCS first time and an ELCS second and, as per previous posters, no one helps you with the tray (and then, in my case, my stitches split a bit and I got told off for doing too much like I was a young child), or indeed anything voluntarily - you have to be prepared to push the buzzer and be treated as unreasonable or a massive hassle. With my second, it was very isolating, as no one even did drug rounds - I was given access to the medicine cupboard across the room and I had to write down what I took and when, with no one checking on me at all in 12 hours overnight. Apparently, this was a trial intended to empower patients…

plus, the number of midwives who quizzed me on why I had a CS, as if I had really let the side down….

After my long labour, back to back 9lb baby, failed ventouse, forceps and stitched 3rd degree tear, DS was in NICU with head injuries (I’ve already described the shocking and disgusting attitude from the midwives on the ante natal ward), I was feeling very sore and low. I was in bed, still numb from the epidural and I had a midwife come up to me and ask why I hadn’t been to see my baby.
I replied that I wasn’t feeling steady in my feet yet and she said ‘oh well you must get Involved in his care otherwise we’ll have to speak to the social worker’. I explained I’d only had the baby that evening (this was midnight).
it turned out she’d mixed me up with another mother who was in the next bed who’s baby had been in NICU 3 days and she wasn’t going down to visit him.

The shit ‘care’ continued over the next few days, my slippers had gone missing (they were still in the delivery suite covered in blood as it happened) I was shouted at for leaving my bed without slippers but no one would look for them for me (they were found 2 days later - so much for the cleaning in the suite). Toilets were filthy, blood over the floors etc. They brought food around (huge boiled potatoes, beans and reformed ham) - it was slammed down on the communal table in the ward - I was told ‘get out of bed, you’re not allowed to eat in bed Princess’.

There was a total bullying nature from almost everyone I met. I was told I had to feed baby myself despite me not having any milk at all - if I didn’t feed him I wouldn’t be able to go home etc. He was being fed nasogastrically at the time and they put him on my breast but I didn’t have a clue and he has no suck reflex. I was given no support, just rolling eyes and ‘keep at it’.

Day 5 they took his feeding tube out at 8am and gave him to me on the ward - still no milk from me, I tried all day to feed him and he screamed and screamed all day. Not a jot of help from anyone all day long until eventually at 8pm, tired of his screaming a nursing assistant came over and said ‘you’d better try and bottle otherwise you’ll never go home’.

So that was my breastfeeding out the window.

Shocking treatment. I made sure I went to a different hospital for my second baby. For years I hated stepping foot in the original hospital, i remember having to take DS back for a hip scan and I almost had a panic attack.

Years ago someone linked to the midwives chat room and it was appalling, dehumanising talk of women.
It's staggering that at the most vulnerable moment of our lives the people speficically trained to keep us alive and well hate us so much. Some of them.
And this pushing of "natural" birth is obscene.

I had gestational diabetes and when my dd was born there was obviously a check on her sugar levels. She was borderline and so the chief midwife nastily told me to give her a bottle of formula straight away or they’d remove her from me to special care and we wouldn’t have her with us. Basically emotionally blackmailed us to bottle feed instead of trying to breast feed. Then once we were on the post natal ward we were basically ignored. I was glad to be out within 24 hours.

So sorry for the horrors that women have experienced. This is exactly why I went private. World of difference. I’ve never heard a good story about maternity care - pre or post.

I had a vaginal delivery with gas and air. Had a 3rd degree tear. Had a spinal block a this point and went into surgery to be stitched up. Just as I started getting feeling back in my legs a nurse on the ward told me my catheter bag was full and to go to the toilet to empty it. I'm ashamed to say I did, like the dutiful people pleaser I was.

The following morning I had a maternity assistant (I think that’s what they are called) come to see me who was so kind and caring and helped get me and the baby cleaned up. That was pretty much the only kindness I was shown the whole time.

It's amazing how even basic kindness makes such a difference. I know MWs are stretched and stressed but often the kind of kindness that transforms your experience doesn't have to be big or take lots of time.

I remember two auxiliary nurses coming to clean me up after my first C-section - an EMCS after a very long labour and I was exhausted, had a drip and a catheter and was barely functioning. These two lovely older women were washing me and jollying me along, making jokes like "you'd pay £80 at a spa for this!" and just being caring turning me over and so on, and admiring the baby. It makes you feel human. They had to do that job either way, it took no extra time or effort to be kind, and probably made their day nicer too.

After my second I had to go back into hospital with my newborn, with a bad mastitis infection, and was trying to get BF going but it was very hard and painful. One nurse would come to help me sometimes and she'd squeeze my shoulder during the latching. It helped with the pain and just felt so warm and kind. It was the tiniest thing but I've never forgotten it.

My grandchild was born just over 2weeks ago …fair to say that the birth was hideous,baby basically dragged out by ventouse because the midwives just didn’t act on the decelerations ,right from triage!!
Am not necessarily blaming them ,but clearly there is a problem with priorities. Baby had Apgar scores of 1,2 and 4 after 14 minutes!! Am still processing how close this could have been to a tragedy .
Having flashbacks and nightmares but so thankful that we have a live baby 🙏

Oh god that’s awful. I saw one where the poor woman was in stirrups and the dr said something along the lines of ‘im just going to examine you okay?’ then put his fingers in before she could even answer. Someone actually commented on the video that the lady was technically assaulted by the dr which generated lots of angry replies! It’s crazy what women are expected to endure.

But yes OBEM shows a lot of these situations, what’s worrying is that they must be on best behaviour considering they know every movement is being filmed? You have to wonder what the culture is like away from cameras.

My first DS was born at 27 weeks at the Countess of Chester Hospital due to me having pre-eclampsia and HELLP syndrome. He sadly died aged 6 weeks after being in NICU for the whole time (Before LL worked there). The staff there both in ante natal ward and post natal ward treated me very well, with care and empathy.

My second DS (now 11) was born at the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital. Owing to having had a ‘classical’ caesarean section first time round, my consultant at COCH said I must have an elective C section for any further pregnancies due to risk of uterine rupture if I had a VBAC. When I saw the consultant at Shrewsbury, I asked her what should I do if I went into labour, she said ‘oh just go with it’. Err no….I was determined I would not put myself in that risky position. This is the consultant who was very proud of having the lowest number of Caesarian deliveries in the whole country!

My waters did break four days before my elective section so I rang the hospital and insisted I went in. This was about 10pm. A very harassed midwife saw me into a room, she was obviously allocated far too many women. When I explained that my waters had broken, she actually said to me ‘are you sure it wasn’t just a big wee?’ I couldn’t quite believe what I was hearing. She said they would get me into theatre in the morning and strongly suggested I went home. We live about 40 mins away and I thought there was no point the extra travelling and I would wait there. A while later, the midwife came back into the room and said they’d get me in shortly (now approx 3am) as the anaesthetist was ‘awake and alert’, and to save him going to bed and being called in later when he might be groggy!

From the incision being made at 3:30, my DS was not delivered until 4:50. My bowels had adhered to my old scar tissue and the two registrars doing the operation didn’t know what to do. They called a general surgeon from the main hospital who said he’d tell them what to do but wouldn’t operate himself. They were not satisfied with that so finally called the on-call obstetrician out of bed, who successfully detached my bowels and delivered my son. I’d been lying there open for all that time and lost 2 litres of blood, with my spinal block just about to wear off. I couldn’t face any more pregnancy and birth related trauma so I chose not to have any more children.

I can so relate to this. So sorry this happened to you. When I asked for a wheelchair to leave the ward as I literally couldn't walk after a traumatic stay including blood transfusions, infected catheter ( left in too long ), raging hunger ( no food brought to me for 2 days and I couldn't walk to the trolley) and a stay in the High dependency unit I was told " I like all my ladies to walk out of here by themselves, what seems to be the problem". Treated like I was creating a problem. Cruel, nasty, sneering power trippers. No wonder I spend DS birthday depressed every year

Having had my first baby in Shrewsbury 25 years ago, I wasn’t surprised at all with the later findings. I consider myself lucky that my son and I survived it.
it was an awful experience, left alone for much of my labour monitered by a student, until my baby got stuck then it was one big ( traumatic) panic. Women deserve better.

This. I am a very assertive white woman with a PhD. I'm used to being respected, listened to, in control of situations and having a voice (not that other women don't, but I know experiences of, for instance, black women are often unfairly different to mine). The one time in my adult life I didn't feel that way was in the maternity ward. I felt infantilised. I felt like a burden. I was ignored. I felt mocked. I felt like I had no control over anything related to myself or my baby. I was really scared. I did complain after, actually, many months later when I felt emotionally ready, but got nowhere. This was in Surrey, 6 years ago, and I'm still angry.

Mine got stuck too and was also large (just under 10 pounds). He ended up with torticollis due to a neck injury from aggressive ventouse delivery afterwards, but when I pointed out his neck didn't look right we were mocked and belittled by the midwife. Took me a month to raise it again, and by then his neck was far worse. He ended up with 2 years of physio and a lot of stress on my part. Could all have been avoided with proper care. I'm just glad he's okay now- could have been much worse I guess.

I had my DD in 2018 with my DP advocating for me in a hospital rated "Good". When I told DP that during covid and after women where going into hospital without a birthing partner he went green and nearly started crying.

During my labour he had physically go and get midwives and the doctor to attend to me as they refused to believe me.

Plenty of women I know and met who have given birth in the MLU or doctor led units in that hospital have had issues with the care. This includes a consultant friend of mine who eventually revealed who she was and pulled rank as the doctor didn't know what he was doing.

Due to my booking appointment with a midwife who was simply horrid because I wasn't the ignorant poor ethnic minority woman she thought and the fact I was obstetrics led, my DP attended every hospital appointment with me. I made sure I never saw that community midwife again and managed to get a lovely one who nearly always had a student with her.

I had one of mine in an independent ( not attached to a hospital) MLU and they were fine My DD had both of hers in MLU with no issues. Other DD was in main hospital with consultant led care and it was there that the ignoring, rudeness etc took place

I'll try not muddy the waters with general ward behaviour...

I was actively giving birth begging for pain relief but was disbelieved.and fobbed off. I was stood up and babies head was crowning. Told no way that I was there yet. When I screamed like some animal it was obvious and I was rushed onto the bed and at least had 2 minutes of gas and air.

No longer surprised by anything. I have the misfortune of significant illnesses and have encountered a fair number of what I would certainly call sociopathic nurses and doctors. Others, clearly just burnt out and lost compassion where maybe they once had it.

@LeilaLandi I had almost exactly the same experience, staggering to NiCu with my baby in his crib, at 4am with a catheter in, a few hours after a c-section, having been abandoned in a corridor by a grouchy HA. I was made to feel ashamed and lazy and stupid for wanting help, and I have never felt so alone and vulnerable. I’m so sorry you had a similar experience but I also can’t tell you how validating it is to read - it’s made me cry as i relate so strongly to that sense of shame. But the shame is on the people who were supposed to help and support us - we deserved better 💐

‘This includes a consultant friend of mine who eventually revealed who she was and pulled rank as the doctor didn't know what he was doing.’

@Reugny a GP friend of mine would have bled out from a miscarriage on her bathroom floor, with only her toddler present, if she hadn’t had the medical experience and assertiveness to insist on being seen. God knows what would have happened if she’d not had medical training and had accepted the (very rudely given and compassion-free) phone advice of her antenatal team. It’s horrifying to think that acquiring a medical degree appears to be necessary for getting adequate maternity care in some cases.

Had a similar thing after my c section (second baby 4 years ago). They wanted me out, and got us to walk to the bathroom a few hours after the c section. They say it's important to aid a fast recovery - fair enough though I did say I didnt feel I could walk. I staggered there, next to a midwife. Bathroom was full of someone else's postnatal blood (which was obviously gross). Came out of the bathroom and the midwife who had walked with me to it had disappeared. Tried to get back to my bed myself but started blacking out. Staggered to a random wheelchair nearby (thank goodness it was there or I'd have been lying in a heap on the floor) and collapsed into it. And this was the better birth by far!