Page 12 | To think that men who evade paying for their children are a burden on society?

ASimpleLampoon · 2025-03-20T07:43:03+00:00

Not my situation as not divorced but I'm fed up of hearing about thousands of men who don't pay child support or only pay the minimum, or fiddle their employment status/ declared income to pay less They should pay at least half the actual costs of raising their children, more if they earn significantly more than the other parent If they can't pay they should be supported to get a better job If theyre self employed and can't pay enough well get a job that allows you to pay. If they're getting paid in cash, take on more work to pay or find a job where they can't hide their income so they have to pay. They are the real burden on society , fed up of seeing disabled people and carers torn apart while these feckless men get away with it year after year. Where is the government and media campaign against them?

Breakitdownplease · 20/03/2025 19:14

Yep. Just had a mandatory reconsideration reducing my payments after ex decided to lump more into his pension whilst I had to opt out of mine as I need every penny I earn to pay for a roof over our heads. To be fair took him years to catch onto that one, dummy.

Miaowzabella · 20/03/2025 19:17

ARichtGoodDram · 20/03/2025 12:55

The frustrating thing is that if staff are given the ability to use the tools CMS have then they could actually do their job.

I have very clear memories of being screamed at by 3 men who were absolutely outraged that we'd actually used powers on them. They were the 3 cases u view as successes in the time I worked there. Two had large sums taken directly from their bank account (and both were outraged to discover their "you cannot do that" was incorrect!) and one who had a charge out on his house, which prevented him from selling it and skipping off somewhere new.

All of the tools are there. There just needs to be societal and political will for them to be used.

So why is the CMS not using its powers? Is it heavily infiltrated by MRAs or deadbeat dads?

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 19:50

LittleBigHead · 20/03/2025 17:29

In my Utopia, all 18 year old boys would do some sort of civic service for a couple of years, and all of them would have to do a stint in child care and elderly care. They would also all be vasectomised with sperm frozen for when they make a deliberate decision to have a child.

And all men would pay an extra 1% income tax to cover the anti-social behaviour and damage done by men in terms of murder, rape, sexual violence and other forms of violence.

But I realise this might be too much for most to contemplate!

But if we tot up the costs we ALL pay for men’s violence and lack of paternal responsibility, I think we’d be surprised.

Women perpetrate a lot of abuse and antisocial behaviour, too.

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 19:52

Breakitdownplease · 20/03/2025 19:14

Yep. Just had a mandatory reconsideration reducing my payments after ex decided to lump more into his pension whilst I had to opt out of mine as I need every penny I earn to pay for a roof over our heads. To be fair took him years to catch onto that one, dummy.

That should absolutely not be allowed. Let them fund their pensions with what's left over AFTER supporting their vulnerable minor offspring.

RhaenysRocks · 20/03/2025 19:52

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 19:50

Women perpetrate a lot of abuse and antisocial behaviour, too.

Show quote history

How about you go and look up that stats and come back to us on that on 🙄

ARichtGoodDram · 20/03/2025 19:56

So why is the CMS not using its powers? Is it heavily infiltrated by MRAs or deadbeat dads?

@Miaowzabella there's just no political will for them to do so. They're massively understaffed.

So the priority ends up being doing the 5 cases where you can get an agreement set up or a payment made, which means the 3 really difficult cases just get shunted aside repeatedly.

There's also a constant air of not being too difficult. I got told off for being "too aggressive" by refusing a man an extension. He'd been dodging payment for four years, but he asked for another month. In my quality check I was told I was too aggressive. My manner was fine, I followed the rules and everything, but I should apparently have given the extension because he asked...

RhaenysRocks · 20/03/2025 19:57

There's been a lot of comment on here about feckless people on both sexes having children without real commitment and lots of blaming women for not choosing better. These threads always go the same way, with whatabboutery abounding. The OP asked specifically about men who fail to pay which, statistically is by far, 95-99% the biggest group and not all absent fathers were random or short term relationships. Plenty of us on here were in relationships of years or decades, married, even went through IVF at the man's urging only to STILL be left a few years down the line because the reality of family life and parenting was too much of a chore. All the MRA apologies on here should be ashamed of themselves and ho and start their own thread instead of trying to undermine this discussion.

LittleBigHead · 20/03/2025 19:58

Well said @RhaenysRocks !!

NotTheDebtDoctorWithTheHungryScalpel · 20/03/2025 19:58

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 19:50

Women perpetrate a lot of abuse and antisocial behaviour, too.

Show quote history

Oh have a day off with the "women do it too" crap. Its tedious.

LittleBigHead · 20/03/2025 20:04

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 19:50

Women perpetrate a lot of abuse and antisocial behaviour, too.

Show quote history

Oh bugger off with such rubbish. The threat of women’s violence rarely requires the level of policing that my local football club buys in most Saturdays.

And we’ve heard (on BBCRadio 4 Today programme) that the football clubs have never paid the full cost of this. That the threat of male football violence costs us taxpayers and Council tax payers millions every Saturday.

That’s before we get to the stats on male violence, male perpetrated sexual assault and what so many PPs here know about: the deadbeat non-dads who decide they don’t have to pay for their children.

Im sick of paying for all that.

tax all men an extra 1% to cover the stupid feckless men. I’d bet that within a generation the social pressure would change men’s behaviour.

Lyannaa · 20/03/2025 20:09

Hekett · 20/03/2025 07:45

It’s not just men. My step DCs mother has never contributed a penny.

Some US states have a minimum contribution that absent parents have to make, regardless of whether they are working or not. And they go to prison if they don’t pay.

We don’t have the structure in this country for that kind of system though.

It’s mainly men though! That’s just a fact.

InvisibilityCloakActivated · 20/03/2025 20:10

LittleBigHead · 20/03/2025 17:29

In my Utopia, all 18 year old boys would do some sort of civic service for a couple of years, and all of them would have to do a stint in child care and elderly care. They would also all be vasectomised with sperm frozen for when they make a deliberate decision to have a child.

And all men would pay an extra 1% income tax to cover the anti-social behaviour and damage done by men in terms of murder, rape, sexual violence and other forms of violence.

But I realise this might be too much for most to contemplate!

But if we tot up the costs we ALL pay for men’s violence and lack of paternal responsibility, I think we’d be surprised.

Why does your utopia have anti-social behaviour, murder, rape, sexual violence and taxes?

InvisibilityCloakActivated · 20/03/2025 20:22

ARichtGoodDram · 20/03/2025 19:56

So why is the CMS not using its powers? Is it heavily infiltrated by MRAs or deadbeat dads?

@Miaowzabella there's just no political will for them to do so. They're massively understaffed.

So the priority ends up being doing the 5 cases where you can get an agreement set up or a payment made, which means the 3 really difficult cases just get shunted aside repeatedly.

There's also a constant air of not being too difficult. I got told off for being "too aggressive" by refusing a man an extension. He'd been dodging payment for four years, but he asked for another month. In my quality check I was told I was too aggressive. My manner was fine, I followed the rules and everything, but I should apparently have given the extension because he asked...

Totally agree. No political will and no real consequences if they don't. If you dont tax your car there are penalties. The onus is on the driver to make sure they are doing what they should be doing. If there were the same penalties for men who didn't declare children to the tax man and make arrangements with their employer for a part of their wage to divert to their child's mother, I think more men would pay.

There are so many men who threaten to apply for full custody so that the woman is too scared to rock the boat by asking for a higher contribution. There are so many men who are self employed, earning loads for their business account but paying themselves a small wage so that they only have to pay a minimal fee to the resident parent. There are so many men who say "well, you'll get less if you go through CMS". There are so many men who use the payments as a way if controlling their ex "yes of course I'll pay... oh, somethings come up, you can have half now and half in 6 weeks". So many men, so many tactics, and every time it is commented on that perhaps this isn't the best way to be treating your children, it is always "not all men" or "women do that too".

5128gap · 20/03/2025 20:28

Hekett · 20/03/2025 07:45

It’s not just men. My step DCs mother has never contributed a penny.

Some US states have a minimum contribution that absent parents have to make, regardless of whether they are working or not. And they go to prison if they don’t pay.

We don’t have the structure in this country for that kind of system though.

In the UK 85% of single parent households are headed by women. Which I think is plenty enough to justify focusing the discussion on male behaviour without us having to pretend it's an issue with both sexes.

PassingStranger · 20/03/2025 20:28

Don't know why people don't want to pay.
They would be paying if they were still together. What's changed. The child still needs to be kept.. Weird.

RhaenysRocks · 20/03/2025 20:45

@PassingStranger there's a thought often posted on here that many men are really mostly invested in keeping the woman they are sleeping with happy, so, especially if the man has a new family, he will prioritise them. Kids are seen as an extension of the woman so if he detached from her he detached from them. Certainly sounds about right for my ex anyway!

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 20:46

LittleBigHead · 20/03/2025 20:04

Oh bugger off with such rubbish. The threat of women’s violence rarely requires the level of policing that my local football club buys in most Saturdays.

And we’ve heard (on BBCRadio 4 Today programme) that the football clubs have never paid the full cost of this. That the threat of male football violence costs us taxpayers and Council tax payers millions every Saturday.

That’s before we get to the stats on male violence, male perpetrated sexual assault and what so many PPs here know about: the deadbeat non-dads who decide they don’t have to pay for their children.

Im sick of paying for all that.

tax all men an extra 1% to cover the stupid feckless men. I’d bet that within a generation the social pressure would change men’s behaviour.

Show quote history

I'm not talking about violence, I'm talking about feckless reproduction, child neglect and abuse, fraud, etc.

Women have the final say about the conditions into which their offspring are born, if they are born at all.

Stafanko · 20/03/2025 21:03

Motherofdragons24 · 20/03/2025 09:16

So do women…

Show quote history

But ifnits resulted in a pregnancy neither of them has 'kept it in their pants'. So neither of them should be able to shirk their responsibility.

Whattodo12e · 20/03/2025 21:06

Op I agree based on a mini survey of one, my brother. He got multiple women pregnant, yes their responsibilities too but I imagine he was.... Well...

Then when one decided to keep the child he didn't pay or even put a single penny aside for him.
Infact moaned that one day he would want money 🙄🙄😱🤔😡😡👿 utterly feckless.

NotTheDebtDoctorWithTheHungryScalpel · 20/03/2025 21:23

TheHerboriste · 20/03/2025 20:46

I'm not talking about violence, I'm talking about feckless reproduction, child neglect and abuse, fraud, etc.

Women have the final say about the conditions into which their offspring are born, if they are born at all.

Show quote history

Aren't you embarrassed at the way you're tying yourself in knots trying to blame women for something, and you don't even care what at this point.

Men also have a say in whether or not they have children. They have the ability to say no to sex. That's literally all they have to do and then there won't even be the possibility of a baby.

Original poster

ASimpleLampoon · 21/03/2025 06:42

ARichtGoodDram · 20/03/2025 19:56

So why is the CMS not using its powers? Is it heavily infiltrated by MRAs or deadbeat dads?

@Miaowzabella there's just no political will for them to do so. They're massively understaffed.

So the priority ends up being doing the 5 cases where you can get an agreement set up or a payment made, which means the 3 really difficult cases just get shunted aside repeatedly.

There's also a constant air of not being too difficult. I got told off for being "too aggressive" by refusing a man an extension. He'd been dodging payment for four years, but he asked for another month. In my quality check I was told I was too aggressive. My manner was fine, I followed the rules and everything, but I should apparently have given the extension because he asked...

The simple answer is Because Patriarchy

Though it's much more complicated to solve.

Same reason why SEND mums doing the best for their kids get their parenting scrutinized to high heaven by various professionals (and woe betide if you're anything less than SuperMum) and Non resident fathers can neglect their kids for 50 percent of their lives but that's just "parenting differently"

Fed up with the double standards across all areas.

OP posts:

Pherian · 21/03/2025 08:57

I think both parents should pay. Women need to start being more proactive in their own choices about their careers and finances when it comes to deciding to have a child. Maybe we should all be making better choices about who we lay down with.

There needs to be a birth control for men other than condoms.

It’s a criminal offence where I live for a man to limit a woman’s reproductive rights - I feel it should be both ways.

Men have reproductive rights too. I have two men in my life who have had women entrap them with pregnancies.

One Lad is only 19 years old.

Before anyone comes at me saying that people shouldn’t have sex if they don’t want a pregnancy - go do one….

And if you think women don’t try and entrap men with pregnancies - you’re wrong….

Blaming men when they don’t control women’s reproductive health isn’t helpful.

Sure there are deadbeat dads. There are deadbeat moms too.

NotTheDebtDoctorWithTheHungryScalpel · 21/03/2025 09:07

Pherian · 21/03/2025 08:57

I think both parents should pay. Women need to start being more proactive in their own choices about their careers and finances when it comes to deciding to have a child. Maybe we should all be making better choices about who we lay down with.

There needs to be a birth control for men other than condoms.

It’s a criminal offence where I live for a man to limit a woman’s reproductive rights - I feel it should be both ways.

Men have reproductive rights too. I have two men in my life who have had women entrap them with pregnancies.

One Lad is only 19 years old.

Before anyone comes at me saying that people shouldn’t have sex if they don’t want a pregnancy - go do one….

And if you think women don’t try and entrap men with pregnancies - you’re wrong….

Blaming men when they don’t control women’s reproductive health isn’t helpful.

Sure there are deadbeat dads. There are deadbeat moms too.

"Before anyone comes at me and tells me my point is irrelevant because men are perfectly capable of saying no to sex, and therefore can't be 'entrapped' - go do one" 👍 great point.

We've already had the "But it's not just men..." several times on the thread and its honestly getting boring now.

This is an issue overwhelmingly affecting women, yet it seems women are unable to discuss it without all MRAs getting involved to derail the thread about how awful women are, and how the poor menfolk just can't help but have sex with these evil sirens who are just after their sperm and a lifetime of trying to get the bare minimum from them.

RancidRuby · 21/03/2025 09:25

Pherian · 21/03/2025 08:57

I think both parents should pay. Women need to start being more proactive in their own choices about their careers and finances when it comes to deciding to have a child. Maybe we should all be making better choices about who we lay down with.

There needs to be a birth control for men other than condoms.

It’s a criminal offence where I live for a man to limit a woman’s reproductive rights - I feel it should be both ways.

Men have reproductive rights too. I have two men in my life who have had women entrap them with pregnancies.

One Lad is only 19 years old.

Before anyone comes at me saying that people shouldn’t have sex if they don’t want a pregnancy - go do one….

And if you think women don’t try and entrap men with pregnancies - you’re wrong….

Blaming men when they don’t control women’s reproductive health isn’t helpful.

Sure there are deadbeat dads. There are deadbeat moms too.

Did this poor 19 year old use a condom?

Londonmummy66 · 21/03/2025 09:53

We aren't going to resolve this without a legislative change. Not paying child support should be treated as gross neglect and a prosecutable offence. It should also be the FIRST deduction from after tax income - ie it is calculated before the father makes any other payment (if he choses to spend his money on a car or a pension or on moving in with a new woman with children or deciding to have more kids - it is irrelevant for these purposes the commitment to the kids he has already procreated comes first). The idea a man can spend £800 a month on his flashy company car and £200 on his child support disgusts me. There should be a simple system to enable RPs to go to the small claims court to recover arrears by direct court order and a mandatory attachment of earnings . Be amazing to see these dead beat dads stump up when the bailiff is trying to take their flashy stuff.

In my utopia any deadbeat dad would have to wear a placard around his neck at all times the pronounces he cba to provide financial support for his DC - might not look quite so cool in his sports car then....