To not pay for an unwanted child?

[Anudawan]

Hypothetical.

it came up at work today.

if the pregnancy was a result of a one night stand, regardless of whether precautions were taken, if the man doesn’t want the pregnancy and the woman decides to continue, should he be able to opt out of child support?

my personal answer and I’m not sure on the nuance (ie do you have be on the birth certificate and thus can claim parental responsibility in order to be compelled to pay maintenance or a dna test to compel the man) my personal answer is no, he cannot or shouldn’t be able to opt out once the child is born. All sex (with a woman of reproductive age) carries the risk of pregnancy, you can lower the risk but never fully remove it. Abstinence is the only way to do that. To do the action you’ve got to be prepared for the consequences. It’s very easy to flippantly say ‘get an abortion’ but for some women that isn’t viable.

I mean that they don’t get involved in helping women use contraception effectively. They don’t tend to offer to pick up pills or get in alternatives when their girlfriend has been sick or otherwise might not be ideally protected, or hassle the doctor to take out the coil when it’s not working (to be fair, most women wouldn’t want that!), or fill in charts etc. for the rhythm method. They don’t even ask if it’s what she’d like most of the time.

While I think there are men who would like the male pill would be as diligent about it as most women who take it are, just as there are men who will get vasectomies and men who are conscientious about checking with their partners and about using condoms, I don’t think there are many. There have been attempts to develop a male pill, but testing was halted as too dangerous. I heard a lot more disappointment from women than from men.

It’s a moot point though, because the woman is facing the consequences of having sex. She isn’t the one arguing she shouldn’t have to pay any money here for her own child, is she?

Her consequences to having sex are the same as the man’s - pregnancy and potential resulting child. She gets an additional choice on what to do with her body but if the baby comes into existence, she has the pay the same as the man (and will undoubtedly be paying significantly more than some paltry CMS payment).

Or if he refrained from jizzing without consent.

What do you mean "what??". Did some woman get knocked up, NO.

except the male pill trial wasn't halted because it was too dangerous

it was halted because the men did not like the side effects

side effects akin to side effects of contraception that women use every day and accept as normal

very few men are willing to suffer even a small negative effect of any contraception as evidenced by so many who say they "don't like" condoms

I'll just leave this here again, because so few comments seem to have picked up on it.

Couples can have all the sex they like, women can have multiple orgasms, and have 100% certainty of no pregnancy resulting.

Lesbians do it all the time.

The ONE THING that causes pregnancy, ejaculation inside a vagina, is the ONE THING they need to not do.

And that one thing is not even the thing that causes a woman to have an orgasm!

So men have 100% control over whether or not they cause a pregnancy and whether or not they are on the hook for child support for 18 years.

And they can still have all the sex they want, every day, all day.

So I have zero sympathy for any man who says he was "tricked" into a pregnancy. Men need to take responsibility for where their sperm ends up. Very few do, most never have even a passing thought about pregnancy because it's not their body at risk.

But they take that risk because to ejaculate inside a vagina is slightly more pleasurable for them for those 30 seconds of orgasm, than ejaculating outside a vagina. For 30 seconds of slightly more pleasure they are willing to let the risk of pregnancy be borne by the woman.

No I'm puzzled by all the attitudes on here that once an accidental pregnancy happens, it's set in stone and has to go ahead! A woman isn't forced to go ahead with a pregnancy either but a lot of you talk like the woman has no choice but to go through with an accidental pregnancy and I don't get that! I don't get the attitude that if a child free couple ever accidentally have a pregnancy occur that they just don't want, people on here feel that the couple should be forced to have that child!

Pregnancies can be stopped is my point! Nobody has to surrender themselves to an unwanted pregnancy and so many on here talk like women are not allowed to choose!

Not a healthy attitude though because a wan can terminate a pregnancy! At the end of the day this thread would have people believe that woman are horrible, manipulative creatures that decide if a man is to be a father or not and that women love being knocked up by strangers!

Most women would also terminate a pregnancy after a one night stand!

I'm actually talking about Northern Ireland. While we were last under direct rule abortion was legalised here to move us in line with the rest of the UK, whereas before our local devolved government were blocking it, and now we are back to being devolved certain parties are making tremendous efforts to block it again.

I don't agree with those comments at all, but I've also noticed the majority of them came from men. Women make the choice to have sex knowing the risks, and knowing they will be the ones facing the consequences one way or another, with no choice to opt out. One way or the other, they face the consequences. I say again, men should not be able to opt out of those consequences. They can not simply I want you to have an abortion so therefore I have no responsibility here. Women cannot be forced into having an abortion in the same way they cannot be forced to continue a pregnancy. There a measures a man can take to protect himself should he not wish to have a child, but these all comes before the woman is pregnant, not opting out afterwards and leaving her to it one way or another.

What happens if it’s a result of a threesome with untraceable men?

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.

I said it’s a hypothetical question and you said it’s not a real question so should be deleted?

Look this thread is pointless because by the time a woman realises a one night stand has resulted in a pregnancy, the guy from the one night stand is a past memory from weeks before who will never know about the pregnancy anyway so it would be a female completely alone in the decision making and completely alone in raising and financing it and the chances are that most women in that situation won't go ahead with it!

It’s was more the general point that came up from my colleague that men should be able to opt out of a unwanted pregnancy if they chose to, and if the woman chooses to continue the pregnancy

No, you misunderstand. A woman can indeed have an abortion if she chooses, but you (and many others) are framing it like it’s contraception. It’s not. It’s healthcare.

Having an abortion is a very difficult choice for many, many women. I go from here and your breezy attitude to abortion over to Twitter to thousands of men calling women murderers and screaming they should be locked up for even thinking about the possibility of abortion. Then the individual’s stance and family’s stance on abortion. Fertility, emotional and psychological effects, the physical side effects.

I think it’s amazing that we can have the choice, but having an abortion is a very personal choice. You are acting like it’s no more difficult than choosing an ice cream flavour. For some women, sure, but for many it’s not something done lightly.

Her body. Her responsibility. Simple enough I would have thought.

My breezy attitude! That is so unpleasant! I'm always appalled by people's breezy attitude that people should go ahead with a completely unwanted pregnancy like a baby is a pet hamster and not the major life changing thing that it is! The breezy attitudes of those that think abortion is bad and that babies and mothers should suffer like hell instead! I mean what's a bit of severe post natal depression eh! So what if the kid ends up in care because the mother's mental health is shot because she was absolutely not wanting a pregnancy or a child!

Or how about the breezy attitudes that no matter how much a man pleads that he doesn't want to be a father he must be forced to pick up the tab if the woman decides that being a single mum would be fine and forever having a financial war with a bloke she barely knows. Never mind explaining that to the child! Never mind that being held to financial ransom might affect his affordability to start a family in later years and affect future relationships.

Does the same not work for men? Given that the only contraceptive that prevents pregnancy and stis is worn by the man, and we know a lot of men make a lot of excuses to not wear a condom, even Bonnie blue on her thousand men escapade where it was contractually mandated had men trying not to wear a condom

Also I hate that perpetuated notion that women trot down to abortion clinics or chemists for morning after pills etc on a regular basis because they can't be bothered to use contraception! It's simply not true!

Yet nobody here is saying that the woman has to have the baby. Not one person. They are saying that the woman alone gets the choice on whether to continue or terminate the pregnancy and the man has to accept that his choice in this was at the conception stage. It’s just biology.

The risk of having sex is an unwanted pregnancy. We do things to mitigate it, but it’s still a possibility. If that happens, and the woman chooses to continue with the pregnancy both parents have a responsibility to ensure the child is fed, clothed and has a home. No amount of pleading stops that man having fathered a child.

And I don’t really know what you are arguing then. You understand abortion is a very personal choice to make and women don’t do it on a whim. You understand it will be right for some and not for others. Where is all this ‘forcing pregnancies’ coming into it then?

The man should consider a one night stand with his hand or a sex doll, rather than a live human woman, if he’s that ignorant of the mechanics and dynamics of reproductive biology.

What about sex work?

So many people have fallen back on the “contraception fails” argument but, when used reliably and consistently, we all know it’s highly effective. Whilst sex workers may get pregnant more often than other women, they clearly don’t have a pregnancy a month.

its implicit that a man who pays a sex worker doesn’t want a child with her. However she is still entitled to child support from him.

as a wise poster said some pages back- the only way a man suffers from an unwanted child is financially. Minimum child support is pitiful. Women sacrifice more every single time

Thank fuck you are here advocating for the men.

I find it staggering the number of posters who seem to support the idea of women having an abortion against their will.

Before conception, of course both parties have an equal responsibility for contraception. After conception there is no equality, there CAN’T be, because at that point we are talking exclusively about women’s bodies.

I hope that some of these posters are MRAs who have been summoned to the thread. But otherwise it’s pretty worrying to see the level of misogyny dressing itself up as equality.

What about 2 women getting pregnant lying about birth control & without men’s explicit consent triggers you and prompted that explosive response?

There was no advocacy language, it’s just a share of my life experience. Both women were/are in my friend group.