To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

It is a difficult one
Clearly some people are not well and need help
Others are lazy although many people here seem to think that cannot be so
I know a girl who is on disability benefit
The only issue she has is that she has never grow up and cannot deal with any conflict and needs constant approval
Her MH does not stop her going clubbing - to parties - pubs - to South Africa for 6 weeks with a friend on a holiday paid for by her parents
Her parents are minted and I and everyone who pays tax is paying for her when what she really needs is to be told to work
My grandfathers during WW2
One was a spitfire pilot
One was on destroyers
They could have been killed on any day
They saw friends skilled
They saw enemy sailors and pilots killed
After the war they had good jobs and did not fall into a pit of despair or unemployment because they would have starved as benefits were not available
So they had to get on with it
Certainly some people need help and should get it
But there is a terrible lack of resilience and independence in current society
I think some people who have a problem do not think what they can do to help themselves but just expect taxpayers to look after them

I won my own business - sadly the above is true
We have had to make redundancies due to increase in NI and corp tax

As someone who does not have medical or mental health issues but who inhabits a world full of children, young people and adults with a range of health issues and disabilities, my gut feeling is that there is an age group for which probably not much can be done.
My main concern is for young people like my foster child who at the age if 11 has been waiting for an assessment for ADHD for 5 years already. There is no doubt he has the condition but no assessment means no diagnosis and no medication.

The result - he has been out of school since September, no chance of going back this year, no secondary school place. Puberty hormones are kicking in, he is becoming more aggressive and violent, he absconds taking up huge amounts of police resources.

It's a tragedy. He is so bright and intelligent, he could be an asset to society but my fear is that unless he gets help soon he will be one of those who wastes his life shut in a room gaming or worse end up in prison.
Thousands of kids like him waiting years for medication which could change their lives.
My own son has ASD, we had lots of issues in his early teens because of issues around his adoption. We were lucky to get a therapeutic intervention funded. It cost £15,000.

Yes it was expensive. But the outcome is a 21 year old in his second year at university. For a relatively small investment we now have a fully functioning adult who will contribute to our society. I call that a result.

I have a disability that I was born with. It’s a random genetic mutation, achondroplasia, the most common form of dwarfism, the same as Ellie Simmons. As with all conditions it affects us very differently. I was having surgery for my extreme bowed legs from the age of 5. I had limb lengthening and straightening as my parents believed it would improve my life. Unfortunately for many reasons and some outing, i ended up more disabled and in worse physical condition. I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis at the age of 16, this is fairly common in people with dwarfism, for an average person it would be something that would be an older age condition, most people are 50+. At 19 the symptoms of the spinal stenosis was so bad that I had to have a spinal fusion. In total I have had over 20 surgeries, all at specialist London hospitals. I was awarded DLA at the age of 3, and indefinitely as it was clear I wouldn’t ever be able to walk much. Despite all of this I did work in a very good job, as I approached 30 my physical condition was declining rapidly. I was told one ankle is at end stage arthritis and the surgery to fuse that is around a 12 month recovery time. That’s if it’s not complicated, given they are doing surgery on an ankle that’s the size of a child. They don’t make joint replacements that small or that last for the rest of my expected life. This is what a consultant has told me.
Rather humiliating, but having a spinal fusion with my T Rex arms wasn’t best planned. I can no longer bend enough to wash or clean myself, after urination or a bowel movement. The council amazingly installed a wash dry toilet for me and honestly it was and is one of the best things to ever exist, before this I was relying on a now ex partner to clean me, or my dad, or magicking up ways that would often leave my underwear slightly soiled. Recently my loo broke, I no longer have a partner or my dad, I tried my best in the shower and this left me with infections, as well as previously suffering with many kidney infections due to particles of poo getting in, I started getting sores and infections on my areas. Showering was a disaster, not realising I had a very small cut on my toe that got infected again from trying to clean myself and bacteria getting into my toe leaving me with cellulitis. I don’t stay anywhere other than at home because of this. By the way the toilet issue only gives me 2 points on pip. So working, whilst possibly smelling of urine or holding in toilet needs doesn’t fill me with joy. Despite this I have applied for various jobs and not been able to get back into work. I hate this view now that somehow were choosing this life, or not putting ourselves out there. It’s a horrible existence. I watch my siblings who dont have any disabilities have their successful lives and it’s a bit like that phrase that Jim Bowen used to say on bulls eye of “look what you could have won”. The genuinely disabled will be the ones hit hardest, end up poorer and some taking their own lives, the scammers will always get through the net because it is a career choice for them.

Do you have any idea how much medical evidence you need to get pip so yes they 100% are

Firstly, I don’t believe anyone is gleeful in the PIP cuts. I think people are just relieved that they themselves are not being squeezed further by cuts and taxes. I think that a small proportion of benefit claimants who do abuse the system stick in people’s minds and overshadow the majority of genuine claims.

still these people, who often due to generational unemployment or other invisible barriers do claim and could work. I agree that it will be a nightmare to train / get people to attend and be valuable contributors to the work place who come
from this group. It will take the effort and support of the whole society to include them again.

As for the people with MH conditions which are
barriers to employment and create significant disruption to work, it may be a good thing for the whole of society to support these people back into work but I agree adjustment will be needed.

I myself have battled with MH my whole
life and fight to be in work (because it’s the only thing that often keeps me going ) but I do have support at work etc.

there are so many ways for people to create a feeling of being valued and worthy and work is one of these which I believe will be a good thing for many people - if done correctly

You can keep repeating it all you like but it won't make it true.

Most of the one million people aged 16-24 not in education, training or work were not old enough to vote in the 2016 referendum. Also, what evidence do you have that people with mental health conditions turned out to vote in large numbers? Rather than being in the 28% who did not vote.

I understand. Losing the daily living part will have a big impact for some people. I just think it's important that the situation is reported accurately for the benefit of other readers. It's misleading when someone says they'll lose their PIP but they actually mean they'll lose part of it.

sigh

If you tax the rich they will leave. They have done before and they will do it again (see 'Brain Drain' - there's been lots of detailed reporting on this recently. People who scream 'tax the rich' just have no idea how it works in reality. It's a great idea in theory but - as with many ideas that the bulk of the population come up with to tackle thorny issues - reality is very different.

It's precisely what others countries - including our European partners - have tried to do and failed. It's what California tried to do - and now everyones buggering off to Texas.

The problem is, the rich can afford to fuck off. They don't need to stay here. So, no 'tax the rich' is not a solution. Let's not oversimplify really complex issues.

It also doesn't make what you say true unless you have been through the pip assessment you genuinely have no idea

This is exactly what will happen between benefits being cut and the NHS overstretched and not offering adequate care. All that has to be done is socially engineer euthanasia to be a trendy choice that honours a sick or disabled person's autonomy, rather than a cost-saving exercise (NHS/PIP provisions not good enough? Well you can always just choose to die).

I think something people also need to be aware of like anyone with a multitude of chronic conditions you have to take a lot of meds. I take 87 pills a day most of which have side effects. It's not just the condition that effects the person also when meds are increased, tapered or changed again it can have a significant impact

I really hope this is the case, protect those that genuinely need assistance and let the lazy work shy go without or seek employment.

It will happen the suicide rate will skyrocket which has a knock on effect to family and friends as now suddenly their mh is impacted

Agree

This ^

It's going to be a survival of the fittest. People with severe physical disabilities and those with severe learning disabilities will receive benefits, but everyone else will end up on JSA or whatever they call it now.

Or maybe they might get a job and become self sufficient like the rest of us?
Crazy idea I know

what is the answer thou- we can’t afford to keep subsidising generations - people will just refuse and vote that way, which is I’ll lead to parties like reform gaining power.

there needs to be a way of making it sustainable and taxing the “rich” is not going to work

Yeah, why can't disabled people just be like the rest of us? You've solved the problem 👏👏👏

I mean people who can't move or who have a severe intellectual disability. I care for a lady with LDs and she cannot do very much at all. She would never manage any sort of job. She needs 1:1 care at all times.

They won't be offered any employment. They are unemployable.

Just because they don't qualify for PIP anymore doesn't mean they will make good employees. I would imagine most employers would give them a very wide berth and they will be included in unemployment figures instead of sickness figures.

I'm a mental health nurse too. Unless you work in primary care I don't see that this would apply to most of the people you work with. Waiting lists are such that cmhts/crisis teams/inpatient services work with the moderate-severe minority.

This is for people who are diagnosed with depression by their GP and then claim PIP at home for years. There will be a very small list of the people with depression for whom staying at home without question for years helps them recover.

I'm talking about the work shy that claim fraudulently.
Also my husband (ex forces) works with quite a few disabled people that have lost limbs etc during military careers, and they're the back bone of his area, as they strive to do more than most able bodied colleagues.

Not people thst feel down or sad and treat every day as a Saturday.