To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

No, of course not. The problem is some people have no idea of the struggles some people are facing daily. Be it a physical, or mental health disability. They refuse to listen to people who patiently explain why they cannot do xyz, coming back with their own ignorant suggestions. Going to support groups is a positive self help action. That does not equate to being able to work full time, or even part time, for some people.

Absolutely. I can't understand the mindset of someone who gets in a "Twitter war" with someone who is just trying to live their life as best they can despite their struggles. It is almost like they want anyone sick/disable to be hidden away.

But, you see it on MN too. "You can post on MN so can work". It is bollocks.

@XenoBitch
As someone with a history of mental health issues, I just wanted to show you support. I do work now. But, there have been periods of time when I simply couldn't. Unfortunately MN does have an excess of posters who don't understand how utterly crippling and overwhelming serious mental illness can be. I have absolutely no interest in judging any benefit recipients, as it's simply not my business how or why they claim. As if those unable to work due to illness, of any kind, don't have enough to worry about as it is. When I had a complete breakdown, I can honestly say getting through each day (when I couldn't go to work in the classic sense) was the hardest work I've ever done.
You take lots of care x

Agreed@XenoBitch. I wonder if they would say any of this to someone in rl, or is it just online, where they can remain anonymous. They really must feel that something is being taken from them personally, when people with profound disabilities are just trying to live, as best that they can.

Thank you so much x
I do say I do work... my job is trying to get through each day safely. Thank you for understanding.

Yep, they are hiding behind a keyboard. Because of my history and the groups go to, pretty much everyone is in the same boat as me. We don't judge each other at all. We share each other's small victories. In my groups, if I have managed to have a shower after 10 days, I am told I did great. On here... I am fucking disgusting and there is no excuse unless you have no limbs and no access to water. And, I managed to shower, so I can clean someone in a care home.. or some other shite.

I have a family member this is likely to affect. If he by some miracle managed to get a job, his colleagues would hate working with him. I love him and it's not his fault, but his mental health condition makes him very very demanding of other people and completely unreasonable in his demands. The more this was challenged, the more stressed he'd feel and the worse his behaviour would be.

He won't get a job though. He'll struggle in poverty with the help of family where possible. His mental health condition makes it impossible for him to move out of his comfort zone or be in situations he cannot control. I honestly think he'd starve rather than cope with work if it came to it, he can barely leave his house.

It is good that you have an outlet, and are around people who understand, and are not judging you, at these meetings@XenoBitch. Small wins, and all that!

You are massively misrepresenting that thread and seem to have major issues in that department.

That poster and the other vile person kept going on and on about how I should start up a business as a coffee van, because they apparently know someone who does.

Firstly, I'm pretty sure i never commented on that person's suggestion that a small business / coffee van might suit your declared conditions of 'good and bad days'. Secondly, as per the screenshot, that poster was incredibly polite. They also didn't 'keep going on about it'.

Later in the thread you misrepresented what they'd written.

"Thank you. I am no longer going to engage with that poster... I mean, a fucking burger van. Ok, I will just pull one out my ass and go set it up somewhere. It is that easy when you have no money, no knowledge of business, the laws and regulations about catering etc., and no desire to have one anyway."

It's a bit of a running theme with you, isn't it? Why would anybody believe your narrative?

Ah, that was the other poster. Both of you continued on another thread about it too... and quelle surprise... here you are again.

Please leave me the fuck alone.

You have repeatedly made completely false allegations about what I've written - e.g. I accused you of binning medication. That simply never happened.

Perhaps if you want to be left alone you shouldn't repeatedly engage in brigading based upon lies and misrepresentations of what people have written?

As per that screenshot, the person was very polite and didn't 'keep going on about it'.

You repeatedly do this in order to cast yourself as a victim of terrible bullying that has simply never happened. You then use these fabricated events as a justification for your insults and toxic behaviour.

But of course, it's never you that's the problem, is it?

What is your point here? You have come on this thread with made up bullshit about my life history. UC has not even existed for 15 years. Why the obsession with me?

It may have been the other poster that accused me of binning meds. You both made me feel awful so it stands to reason I got you mixed up.

You have to understand right? It can be difficult for working people to empathise when it feels there's a narrative that "work" is the only thing people say they can never manage.

You will get a poster who will patiently explain that they can manage (with x, y, z supports etc)

• holidays
• parenting
• hobbies
• socialising
• posting online/using computers

And will give 55 reasons why they can manage these things sometimes etc but can

never manage work

But maybe a change of mindset would help, I think maybe some people who've been out of the workplace a while (or maybe never got there to begin with) don't realise how much things have changed. Mental health and neurodiversity are embraced, the culture is to support people and ask what they need, and provide it.

You need an employer that is flexible about wfh because you are autistic and can't really cope with the noise of the team? Got it - i have a chap in my team like this.
You need mental health support? Got it. Every single team in my company has a wellbeing champion, access to helpline & face to face support, private health. In my experience this is quite common in large corporates.
You need part time work? Fab. We've got people at all levels, including up to the level below c-suite, working part time.
You're going to have some organisation issues? Ok. We'll look at how we can support you, we often get extra software packages or assistive technology. We'll ask you what helps you function, and we'll listen.
You need a quiet space to bolt to for a time out? There's a dedicated space on every floor of the building.

@XenoBitch Nobody accused you of binning medication. You completely made up the allegation.

@0ohLarLar so what exactly would you "allow" out of work people to do? Absolutely bloody nothing by the sounds of it. Maybe just sit in a dark room rocking back and forth...

@Firefly1987 That's a disingenuous question. OohLarLar was clearly referring to those people that declare themselves to be 'too ill to work', but can manage holidays, childcare, hobbies, socialising and posting/using a computer.

Being out of work, isn't the same as declaring yourself unfit to work.

My son is autistic and will come across as very rude and direct if he’s working with the general public like retail but due to learning disabilities he doesn’t have much education and will probably be forced to do just that and be sacked immediately because he would cause outrage to customers with his lack social skills, he’ll offend someone and probably end up in the media for saying something outrages but truthful and give the company a bad name or worse sued.

thisoldthang thank you

Exactly. For that group of people who clearly do have some functioning capability, it seems there can be a mindset of assuming a workplace simply won't offer any/enough of the concessions or supports that they rely on to manage other areas of life. I'm saying be open minded as actually these days workplace must & do offer far more concession to make work possible for people with additional challenges.

I work for a large corporate & my role gives me exposure to others. You might be surprised how many people manage work around mental health issues, children with severe disabilities, neurodiversity. Many find that work actually helps.

Suntrees why do you assume a customer facing role is likely? There are less and less of those.

More likely is something like a logistics role packaging goods in a delivery company, cleaning work. Does he do well with heavy work? There are roles in logistics around delivery of heavy goods etc.

I do think however, that cognitive/severe learning disabilities are probably the biggest barrier to work. Someone who's able bodied but lacks the capacity to master even relatively simple tasks, who perhaps will never be able to read or recognise numbers, is always going to require support.

They would have to get a job to start with.

For someone who is disabled and high skilled, their employer will make adaptions and concessions. For some unskilled NMW job.... they will employ the people most capable with no adaptions. So not the disabled.

My local Sainsbury's has a number of differently abled staff. The guy that collects the trolleys has zero social/customer skills (he's really quite rude and I've witnessed him shouting at people looking for trolleys). There are people working within the store who are (to my layman's eyes) almost certainly autistic.

Plenty of people, with a variety of disabilities, can and do find work.

Absolutely. When an employer pays NMW what they are really saying is "i would like to pay you less but i cant get away with it" They are hardly going to be scrambling to do adaptations or reasonable adjustments

Well time isn't the issue is it? Some people just can't deal with the stress and expectations of work. Having to complete work in a certain amount of time and having to keep a cool head under stress. Having to think outside the box and problem solve, these are all things above some people's skillset. I don't see how going to a convention occasionally has any relevance to anything. You could take a toddler to a convention doesn't mean they can hold down a fulltime job either...

And you think customers being abused on a daily basis by this guy is a happy medium? Probably not happened to you yet so it's fine...

You are so right OP. There’s been a lot of effort in reducing stigma of mental illness, but just by raising ‘awareness’. ‘It’s ok not to be ok’ and all of that…. But people in general don’t have a scooby do what to do and how to react if someone has a panic attack for example, or behaves in any which way outside of social norms. Even people who consider themselves really switched on and aware seem to describe pretty low level depression and anxiety and parade themselves as experts in mental health or so called wellness coaches. They wouldn’t have a single clue about anything more serious and probably couldn’t spot it a mile off . I hope it back fires greatly, but sadly, again, the most vulnerable in society pay the price. It’s extremely awful and sad. We are no near good enough at understanding mental illness, addiction? Forget it. We’re in the dark ages.