To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

Yep. I know a lady who is bed bound (can't work) and has teenagers. They all help her out, along with her husband.
Another had kids before her bipolar came apparent.

On the other hand, when I was a teen I went out with a lad whose mum had MS. She was in a wheelchair at that point and had carers come in. If she had done a lot in one day, she was pretty much paralysed for the next. She had 6 kids from 3 different men all living with her. They would run riot upstairs as she could not get up there to sort them out. The younger ones were absolutely feral.
She still used to go out clubbing, and often bring men back (we could hear her when popping downstairs to use the loo).

Absolutely this. Well said. 👏

But what are they supposed to do with the kids when they become disabled, put them into care so they can prioritise working instead of they can’t manage both ?

I wasn’t talking about people having children and then becoming disabled. I was talking about people already on disability benefits who have a baby every 2/3 years - I don’t believe it’s possible to be too disabled to work but fine to have babies. If somebody already has children then becomes disabled then that’s different.

I just don't understand things like PIP sometimes either... I have Ulcerative Colitis and am on several Facebook pages with other sufferers. Some of them cannot get outside because they have no control of their bowels, they are in nappies at 30! Drained by being chronically anemic, diagnosed as depressed from their shit existence and they STILL don't get fucking PIP!!

So how the fuck do others seem to get it for - don't shoot me - conditions which are not as limiting. I mean, you literally cannot work - even a job from home if you can't control whether you shit yourself at the drop of a hat or not.

It’s not well said. It’s the stock response of somebody who can’t seem to wrap their head around the fact benefits aren’t a moral issue but a financial one. With a side order of ‘we can just be an unemployed society propped up by a few billionaires if we tax them enough’. It’s pure fantasy, and the refrain of people who have no interest in engaging with actual figures. If they did they would see 5 billion is nothing in the context of what we are discussing.

Do the financial constraints magically make disabled people better?

What happens to people who literally physically can’t work if their benefits are cut? What do they live on? How do they pay for food and fuel?

Does having more claimants mean we can
magically find the money?

I trust that the most seriously disabled people will continue to be supported. I think there are a lot of borderline cases however

A disabled mother will probably have a supportive family and husband to help.

The less seriously disabled and borderline cases will just die.

Although that saves money elsewhere too, I guess.

Depends what we do to get more money and redistribute existing spending, doesn’t it? It’s all about choices.

If we go your way and remove subsistence level support from those who cannot work, what’s your alternative solution that ensures they survive?

They will insist that the threat of destitution will somehow cure people and they will be able to work.

Just like those advocating for workhouses used to in the nineteenth century.

Ive had bowel issues for the last two and a half to three years and this is one of the things i was being investigated for. Im not as bad as the people you mentioned but i often have had to rush home to shit and a couple of times have not made it.

So what happens when they are called into the Job Centre? Are JC workers happy with the possibility of a Cat 1 hazard all over their chairs?

It's really bad! Although I do also question sometimes, if they are so bad - why don't they have a stoma?!

PIP awards do seem random at times. I think it is to do with what mood the person reading your assessment is in at the time! Some people seem to get awarded with little evidence, and others who have a ream of paper full get turned down.

Yep, I hope the work coach on NMW can cope with someone suffering the indignity of soiling themselves in front of them. Or cope with someone exhibiting mental illness symptoms.

Yep. And I genuinely think there are people walking around today who wouldn't say no to a return to the workhouses. 😟

Yes, a few on this thread.

Well yes, the old ‘you want everyone in workhouses’ is yet another thought terminating cliche. For the record I would take practically any route other than putting people in workhouses, because they were deeply evil places which caused untold human suffering (read ‘in the shadow of the workhouses’ - I cried for days and still do sometimes after that).

But equally we cannot allow benefits to send us into a recession and decimate other public services which they are currently doing.

So, what’s the answer?

Not pushing vulnerable people into destitution.

Do you consider all statements you disagree with to be attempts at 'thought terminating'?

Not if they’re well explained or backed by evidence, no. You saying ‘you all want us in workhouses!!’ is like me saying ‘you want to ruin the economy with benefits!!’.

Literally nobody wants those things. Until the posters who are against the reforms suggest a practical way in which we can pay a £5 billion PER YEAR increase, our opinions are moot and the changes have to happen.

Hysterically posting about workhouses changes nothing, it’s just designed to terminate the conversation using pure emotion. Even you did the problems would remain.

Better let Starmer know you’ve solved it.