To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

I really don’t understand the uproar……..
if, legit surely there’s no concerns
It can be proved?
There are so many ailments that over the years have been “ quietly” removed from the NHS altogether.
I pay privately for a musculoskeletal condition, as does dd.
Personally, advances within the NHS with regards to major/more serious /life threatening conditions would be a good thing?
I would much rather my money being spent on treating conditions such as cancer, dementia, Alzheimer’s etc.

Where is the evidence that removing financial support from people who are disabled by mental illness is going to save money longer term? I worry that we'll just see the cost displaced to other services and budgets, and strain on health services and social work as people flounder. Those who can't cope will still need to be fed, clothed and housed somehow unless we allow them to starve to death on the street which is grim.

The evidence is there in other countries that don’t allow individuals and families to play the system.

@ThymeScent not to mention the fact that no other country has seen anything like the increase in those claiming benefits in recent years.

What "other countries" are we aspiring to and would you want to go and live there if you became disabled by mental illness through no fault of your own?

You spoke upthread of your MH struggles and I'm genuinely pleased you have the support you need at work. And I totally agree with you that work can be therapeutic, in the right circumstances. But it would be naive if you were to let your own situation blind you to the fact that there are a ton of people out there who either genuinely can't work, or can only work certain kinds of job, or whose disabilities mean it's impossible for them, in a competitive job market, to place themselves at the top of a potential employer's shortlist of desirable candidates. And that's before I even get started on the number of people in shitty workplaces who end up being managed out because their employers aren't willing to accommodate their needs. I've seen it happen.

I'm able to work and have a full-time job, but there are limitations on what I can do due to various chronic physical health issues. I am thankfully in a sector where the work is mostly desk-based and my job is wfh, I say thankfully because I physically cannot do a job involving more than a very small amount of standing without extreme pain, and cannot bend or lift without pain. A lot of people have these physical limitations, and many have MH/neurodivergence issues which genuinely limit them, much as some MNers refuse to acknowledge it. (That's not meant as a dig at you btw.) Far more people than there are jobs they are able to do, or employers willing to take them on and make accommodations.

So, with respect, I absolutely dispute that it's 'really easy' for people with disabilities to find work where they can be fully productive without their issues getting worse, either under or over £30k. (I'm 57 and have never earned anywhere near £30k in my life btw, partly because of my health limitations.) There simply aren't enough disability-friendly jobs or workplaces for this. Does that mean people shouldn't try to find work they can do? Of course not. It just means people need to be more realistic about the chances of someone being able to obtain and hold down employment.

Which countries are you thinking of there?

@AzurePanda

not to mention the fact that no other country has seen anything like the increase in those claiming benefits in recent years.

That is not true, Ireland has seen a huge uptake in disability benefits especially in young people, America has too, it makes sense with a higher diagnosis rate.

These things are very difficult, real lives are at risk, it is the people who need help the most get hurt.

The case of Laura Winham who suffered with severe psychology illnesses, left to die, starving, found mummified. Absolutely tragic, her photo chokes me up,

That should never happen, assessors should read the file before badgering people for review assessments, when clearly some disabilities don't disappear.

It's okay to re-evaluate the system but be aware of their audience.

@EmeraldShamrock000 not according to the IFS, happy to be corrected but understand this to be the most comprehensive recent comparative report on the subject although obviously there is a time lag involved in collating the statistics.

@AzurePanda
It's a massive problem here, our welfare bill is huge.
It wouldn't surprise me if our sneaky government covers up data with different schemes of payments.
We have good scheme for people with disabilities to work, all the major retail stores, staff wearing JAM cards, "just a minute"
People using wheelchairs, our local boot and McDonald stores employ staff with downs syndrome.

I don't think anyone believes that people with benefits removed will be walking into new jobs? Deep down surely everyone knows there will just be a significant reduction in the standard of living?
Alongside the cuts will be employee rights from day 1 (so new full time permanent employees are now a risk and short term contracts, internal known hires are preferred) and the national insurance hike (again no incentive to hire full time permies). Couple that with loads of sectors (finance, tech, marketing, sales, hr - have I missed anyone?) purging employees at the moment, so market flooded with just made redundant people without the poor employment history.

I have already posted op thread about the better services in France.

The French pay for their health care

so do the brits

so do the brits
The British pay through taxes, in Ireland we pay with tax and personal payments €60 GP visits, €100 per night hospital overnight stays, maximum 10 per year, anything over €1000 is covered.
€100 for A&E.
Children over 8 pay.
Low earners or employed recieve a medical card, under 30,000 I think to qualify.
Granted many people who need to see a gp will avoid it till the last minute.

I think it’s a plot combined with the Assisted Suicide bill to kill people like me.

No they pay at point of service and they pay tax.

So they directly pay for elements of treatment alongside paying tax. We just on the whole pay for healthcare via tax.

I don't know why but I love your user name reminds me of IT Crowd.

@Workingmum13 Is that enough to keep the system going? Do you think it would be better run with less wastage if there was a charge for those who could afford it.
I noticed people here, with medical cards visit the GP far more than those who have to pay? They'll visit for minor illnesses.

On the flip side the ones that pay often put off visiting for a longer when ill and can either recover naturally or end up in hospital.

I always put it off.

We fund those who geuinely need assistance/support and stop all the aid to Countries that have the money for weapons, space travel etc. We cut the pay of some of those so called Ministers who just turn up at Parliament but don't actually do anything - some of them just fall asleep anyway so haven't heard the discussion/debate on whatever subject matter is. We stop paying for housing for people who travel here illegally We stop financial aid to those coming here illegally unless they can prove they have escaped from a country where civil war or other serious iincidents/violence - such as torture for opposing brutal governments etc. They should have some docementation to prove Name, Age, Country of origin.
We empty the prisons of all oversees criminals who have committed crime here and return them to Country of origin or any other Country willing to take them even though have committed crimes in "safe haven".
We stop bailing out banks. We stop funding schemes that actually are not popular, just get more and more expensive such as H2 link, we stop giving in to Union pressure for some industries to earn more than what is reasonable and yet others on minimum wage. Some of those working in Care Homes these days are on extremely low pay, Unions don't seem to fight injustice for individuals at work who are treated unfairly, bullied paid less than others who do same work - oh well no publicity or appearance on the TV - but if a load of Train Drivers, NHS workers all walk out they back them all the way as opportunity for a photoshoot. Rant over.

Check out what she said about one of the Yorkshire Rippers victims because she got compensation after surviving an attack.

Yes, I stand by it.

Or what she said about disabled mothers.... that someone on PIP that is in a relationship and has kids must be a fraudulent claim. Or if they are so disabled to need PIP, then they should not have kids.

Do you have any kids? I do, 2, and I’m disabled. Having kids is by far the hardest thing mentally and physically you can EVER do, not to mention expensive. I simply don’t believe that somebody who is too disabled to work can have kids no problem, because honestly every mother I know is exhausted physically and mentally and it is FAR harder than an 8 hour a day admin job.

I stand by that.

I agree to an extent, but isn’t the issue for a lot of people that they would struggle to do both? And then the question is does the country support those disabled people having children even though it means they may not be able to work? Having children isn’t a right but I think it would be a bit harsh to say they couldn’t because of having a disability. Also what about those who become disabled after having kids or have conditions worsen afterwards? They’re not going to get rid of their kids are they so just get on with it as best they can or partners take on more.

Given that some people are pathetic enough to begrudge my 5 year old child who has additional needs the "reasonable adjustment" to take his comfort rabbit to school with him (where once inside he thrives) I'd say the chance of some people being understanding to adults needing adjustments to be able to work is depressingly low.