To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

Solely speaking about mental health, I do realise a lot of people might struggle (particularly those LTS). I do however think the try work without initially impacting claims is a good idea.
We have as much as 5% of the workforce already struggling with MH. We have a MH 1st aider & a lot of companies do now.
It might be an idea that when jobs are registered that a company identifies whether the support is there or not.
I realise it wouldn’t work for all but if there was no commitment either side for a period, some may find it beneficial.
It’s the not trying at all, something needs to give.
I personally have neighbours with MH conditions, early/mid 40’s, never worked, but they are drug dealers…….
You must see the frustration!
It is these that give MH a bad name.

do all the corporates you’ve worked for also hire people with little to no education or experience?

Lots of people on pip have education.

I think its a bit of a sweeping statement to act like most are completely useless. There are lots who clearly have the literacy & computer skills to post on this thread and the maths to understand how much they currently receive as different benefits and understand the impact that potentially losing the money will have on their family budget. Thats a pretty good start.

The group with lifelong mental health problems preventing education and work are unlikely to represent 10 million people. Unlikely to even represent 5 million. If we get even 40% of these working and fewer joining them - the reforms would be a resounding success

It’s not simple though, is it? Wealth taxes have failed pretty much everywhere they have been tried. They tend to drive wealth away so you get much less revenue than you expect.

You can tax high income, but the top 10% of taxpayers in the UK already pay 60% of the UK’s income tax (vs 35% in the 1970s). At some point you drive the highest earners away too (often they are the most mobile) or disincentivize work.

The UK already has one of the lowest proportional tax burdens on the middle income bands of any Western country.

The reason it doesn’t feel that way is that we are just getting (relatively) poorer and poorer, as growth stalled almost 20 years ago. Demographics are catching up with us too. You can’t tax your way out of that.

This is why my DC will only be going to uni if they study an actual vocational related degree…
If they don’t want to do a degree related to a specific career path they will be going to do an apprenticeship or getting a full time job.
Not wasting 4 years studying something nonsensical like criminology.

I work with a lady who is Bipolar, recently diagnosed. Perimenopausal too. She doesn't claim PIP and would never try to.

Her mood swings from tearful and depressed to overly joyful, chatty, not concentrating fully. It's not easy working with her sometimes I'm sorry to say, although she's a lovely person. Can change like the weather!

I'm shitting myself, i have had severe OCD since i was 5, wasn't able to finish highschool on site, never been able to work. I'm practically housebound to the point i couldn't visit my mum in hospice when she was ill or be with her in her final hours. Can only leave the house for my therapy appointments or doctors, fully chaperoned and can only travel by car, can't get about on foot or use buses, taxis etc, even 3 streets away isnt walkable for severe psychological reasons. I have a full time carer in my dad who gets carers allowance for me. I'm 35 with a handful of mediocre GCSE's, nothing IT related. Have OCD, PTSD, social anxiety and depession. My CV would be literally blank for the entire 20 years i've been old enough to work. I could only work from home, couldn't do a job that required making or answering calls, and have no computer based qualifications, haven't used word, excel etc in over a decade. Even then I'd need flexi hours as i have ptsd related insomnia and some night manage no more than 30 minutes and will be unable to stay awake by mid day, let alone look at a screen or do anything productive. Regular panic attacks and need for unlimited toilet breaks that need to be 30 minutes minimum per break to get through all my OCD rituals. Could never do a single in office day, attend any meeting in person, and can't use video chat even with my family due to anxiety so couldn't teams in. Who would ever employ me?!
Yet i still didnt score more than 2 points in any daily living area on PIP ( i should have, they refused to put me down as anything other than needing prompting and encouragement even where im completely incapable of doing something at all) so by their new qualifying criteria of needing atleast 4 in one area, i'm going to lose over half my meagre disability benefits, either if they apply it now to all current claims, or if i get a bad reassessor in oct 2026.
I seriously hope they bring in a LOT more MH trained assessors for claims, because at present you get physios assessing MH claims!

Just to add to this.
I have an ex friend, Dd diagnosed with Dyspraxia. When hosting them their dd was playing chess with mine. My dd teaching. Parent interrupted, “why are you playing chess!” My dd has Dyspraxia she won’t be able to learn chess. IN FRONT OF THE CHILD.
Also makes me wonder how many parents write off their child.
Cant express how appalled I was with this.
What happened to teaching children they can succeed regardless?

What will a MH first aider do beyond tell someone to call the Samaritans? It is a useless non role.
Are they trained in restraint incase someone in psychosis kicks off?

Using a smartphone and reading a UC statement is not something CV worthy. Come on....

It will be bloody fantastic for all the Mumsnet six-figure earners who somehow manage to work their fingers to the bone at their very important office job while simultaneously being on Mumsnet all day.

The one's who feel they'd be more wealthy on £80 a week than they are on £2,000+ a week because as we all know £80 is more than £2,000+ if the £80 is "free money" and the £2,000+ is 😱 taxed.

The ones who single handedly fund the entire lives of every single lazy bastard out there falsely claiming disability benefits with their personal taxpayer tax they work 29 hours a day for.

Of course, they have got absolutely nothing against genuine disabled people but seeing as no disabled people are genuine (all over exaggerating liars, making things up for PIP forms) it's okay to pick on them all.

The ones who live in a high earner bubble but somehow know every intimate detail of the lives of the poor people they "know" plus the pound value and name of every benefit in the welfare system. They're also medical experts, even if they work from home and don't see anybody. Can diagnose any anonymous person on socials as faking because they are just that good.

Miracle workers they are. "Nothing wrong with you" and Hey Presto, the mentally incapacitated/sick/dying etc. are perfectly healthy once more and ready for work.

Yes. They'll have a field day.
Just imagine it. They'll get to bully disabled people in person. They can make a sport of it. The Workplace Bully Games: Self-righteous League. First one to twenty-five points wins a bottle of fizz. Nom nom nom...yummy

1 point-Making Sally cry.
2 points-Making Sally have a total mental breakdown.
3 points-making Sally swear and lash out. 1 bonus point if you call the police and have her arrested.
4 points-making Sally quit.
5 points-if Sally gets sectioned.
10 points- if Sally refers to you by name in her suicide note.

There are also points for laughing at colleagues who have soiled themselves, fallen over or are stuck at the bottom of the stairs but that's for Premier League players.

Okay. I am taking the piss out of these types but after the nasty comments I've read on just this site in the last few days, I've lost respect for a very large number of members. From the ill-informed to utter lies and everything inbetween. I'm alright Jack, sod everybody else on steroids. It's been quite literally nauseating at times. I have read some posts where I end up thinking, you are an actual monster of a human being. Fortunately, there are also a large number who have shown understanding and compassion. I don't know what it is about talk of money that turns some people into such arseholes.

Is it a class thing, a wealth thing, a personality thing. I just don't know.

My serious answer is no. I don't believe for one moment that those who demand everybody works will hire or work with disabled people who cannot hide it well.

PP was clearly questioning the abilities of people who claim to be too mentally unwell to work, but fine mentally to write a lot of very lucid and coherent posts on MN every day for sometimes years at a time.

It does sound a bit gauche but why is it, when you think about it? The bar for mental illness related unemployment needs to be very high, and somebody stable enough to log on every day and chat with strangers in a very balanced, consistent and reasonable way for many months on end would be unlikely to reach this bar in my view.

I have been very mentally unwell at times, I’m still medicated, I’ve paid for private therapy, I’m diagnosed OCD by an NHS psychiatrist. I’ve been stable for about 5 years now and honestly at the peak of my illness there’s no way I could’ve logged on here and engaged regularly in back-and-forth with strangers discussing relatively complex topics like changing benefit criteria, or economic policy. In reality I spent most days in bed with the duvet over my head, or wandering around the house checking the windows were locked.

@XenoBitch , read my post might help someone knowing there is someone to support might help I said some not all. Given the support via the NHS something is better than nothing. At the very least they are on the radar. Wellbeing checks etc. The number of people that commit suicide unnoticed, even for weeks it might help.

What’s your solution? Write everyone off even with mild symptoms?

That is your OCD. It is your OCD.
I had a lovely friend who would have been posting on here left right and centre about the benefits etc. But he would have been manic as he was bipolar.

The reality is huge numbers of jobs are an utter waste of time doing roles which serve no actual purpose. " Diversity human resources manager" and "technical director of recruitment " etc etc. The hardest working people are actually people in low paid work doing long shifts in poor conditions contrary to many well paid roles particularly in the public sector doing very little for large amounts of money.

Meritocracy doesn't feature particularly heavily in most jobs, the majority of millionaires left school at 15 with very few qualifications and got to where they are based on who they know rather than what they know accompanied with other factors. You have footballers on 200 k a week kicking a bag of wind about, people like Bonnie Blue driving around in ferraris purely for shagging men and overpaid directors often with IQs akin to pot plants.

Strangely the people always bashing the disabled are the so called hard working types who always seem to have time to come on MN in the middle of the day .... there are alot of days off and coffee breaks seemingly aren't there - or maybe like many roles, many people earn a great deal doing very little. The real people who drive the economy are front line NHS staff, teachers, manual labourers etc not people "working from home" as a "technical assistant for directives of programming" which basically means a few online chats and walking the dog/ hanging the washing out/ coming on here.

People just use their phones while working. It's not complicated or time consuming.

????
What are you on about?

If they use their phones browsing sites like MN they aren't working and complete hypocrites

Urm no human sits and works for 8 hours unbroken. And if your work is so impacted you would be out of a j9b. I'm baffled multi tasking is real we know this.

I think an important thing is the transition from not working to working, which is why I do like the idea of being able to try work without being penalised.

I'll still qualify for PIP under the new rules (barring an assessor who lies), I'm LCWRA on ESA but I desperately want a job and I know that I can work - it's just that the jobs I need (work from home or extremely good public transport links with no walk as part of the commute) are so hard to come by. I'm applying for every one I see and I cannot wait until someone says "yes we'll have you!" and I can get off ESA, but in the meantime I still need to live and feed my daughter and have a house.

It isn't as simple as "if you can work, get off benefits". There's that in between stage of finding a job that will work alongside your disabilities and individual needs, and for disabled people that often isn't going to be as simple as it is for an able bodied jobseeker.

This is the crux of our social issue. Your using tools created by people who you regard as less hard working then someone who does manual labour. I'm looking at what your posting and think I see a pattern I presume this thread is being used for information warfare. It's really intresting to watch. But no vanya your wrong. People who work on computers are not less hard working.

Oh give it a rest! I’m measured on revenue targets. As I am a grown up and achieve and often exceed those targets I get to do things like use my phone when I like during ‘work hours’.

It's like you live in a bubble of hate a suffering and you reject people like me autistic deaf because I'm saying actually working is doable with support and better then not working. There are people on this thread whom I'm damn sure spend time sneering at us geeks whilst being fully dependent on what we create. Honestly I'd prefer to have an opt in system where people who think the same pool taxes to create a community that works. And all the people who feel such contempt form their own communities, who wants to be vilified and TAXED rude!

There's a bit of a difference between the odd break and "working from home" which for many involves housework , online browsing etc. If you think everyone under performing in many jobs is sacked with poor productivity levels, I've some magic beans to sell you. I've seen it first hand in many offices where staff spend half the time reading magazines, browse the web and chat about what their neighbours are doing. They must literally work 3 hours out of the 8 there yet get paid the full 8

Course you do - just think how high the "revenue targets" would be if you had a break from your phone browsing the web at work. You would be the next Bill gates