To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

I'm not sure what industry you work in but my output is what I'm measured on. My work is complex if I was not performing it would show and I would be escorted out. I'm unsure how it's possible to be that unproductive and paid. That's crazy 🤪

Many people "working from home" are much less hard working than people doing 12 hour shifts in various locations. To suggest otherwise is utterly ridiculous and deluded. You're * welcome.

What do you want me to do? I am just some knob on UC.
And my name is based on the Alien films. I am not a bitch in real life. But thank you for utterly assuming I am.

I had a serious mental health condition, was really crippled by it, but actually it was forcing myself to get out and work that saved me. Not cured obviously, but feel so much better in myself.

How do you know that? Hard work can mean mental or physical tiredness. Let's be very clear: We are a services-based economy, and the less physical work, pays my PIP. I know that, so why don't you?

I've reported your post; personal attacks are unfair.

Thanks. I can't even work out their comments TBH

My point is that many ( not all ) jobs are money for old rope. I, like many people know people on a mimimum wage doing far more productive things than people earning 6 figures. Meritocracy is not always related to job roles in reality with many qualifications utterly useless.

Oh don't be so silly.
How much do you think that would raise? Are you 15? Because I can't believe an adult would think this,was a sensible response

I really appreciate you keeping the convo going by the way. I think I'm understanding you better.

Your saying the ability of people to do less is easier when they are not on site and double so when there isn't an easy way to say job done.

Your angry that someone who works 12 hours and truly labours who is also on benefits is being seen as less hard working.

Yeah your right. Maybe I'm oversensitive to, but do you see what I'm saying.

To be honest as the granddaughter of coal miners yeah I want jobs to pay fair and disability to support those who did work. I'd like those that truly can't to be helped but I don't want that number going up and we need more people working.

Indeed, many of the hardest workers are actually the lowest paid. The benefits system may be bad, but the jobs one is even more unfair with massively underpaid roles for doing critical jobs contrary to people paid often huge salaries doing very little

A quick Google suggests that there are less than 1 million jobs available, so at best we can get less than 10% of those people into employment.

Yes, right now there are a lot more people on job seeking benefits then there are actual jobs.
Bin people off of sickness benefits onto jobseekers... do you really think they will have the CV at the top of the pile?

Even leaving the Pip debate aside the current job market would depress anyone and affect their mental health. For many young people, they have the prospect of 50 years ahead of them of doing what is likely to be a job insufficient to pay for a house, any decent quality of life with much of the wage disappearing on bills, exorbitant energy bills, and told to just suck it up.

@YourDeftShakeror they could get the training and or qualification needed to futher their career

They could, or they could get a qualification/degree that is utterly pointless like many are

Lwrenn and 528htz, I agree with all of your comments - at least I think the comments are yours regarding unsuitable people being forced into care work. I worked for a leading Charity for people with LD for 9 years in the mid nineties until 2004. Some people were totally unsuited to the work. Some were extremely lazy and laid full length on settees.doing nothing all shift but watching TV - what they wanted on, not the clients, and they left medication and everything else to lesser paid staff - the ASW, who often were better at the job than those who were SW's. Some had no patience whatsoever and there were a couple of people who wanted to be in control - very dangerous when you have vulnerable people. I wish the DWP/governmen would leave all the genuinely ill people alone and you do not have to be a hospital Consultant to see people with severe physical needs and nor do you have to be a Professor of Mentalhealth Studies to know when someone is suffering with mental health problems. It was always called common sense and being aware ot others needs and frailities.
I was doing differnt work - in travel - and decided to go into care work as I could see some people were not getting a fair deal in Society and it really bothered me. I worked in that setting for 9 years but left when my long term relationship broke down as I was still grieving after losing my Mother very unexpectldy at her age of 64. Other things happened in my life and I decided to work for a Charity in a different capacity and worked there until 2 years ago when I had to retire on health grounds. I do hope the government have a re-think.

So what is your solution? There is no point so let them waste away on the sofa all day? We can't give up on our society.

Jobs don't fall from heaven - they are created . It takes Innovation and the right environment. The government can't provide an incentivised environment to foster small businesses with 10 million people to feed and house - in addition to the elderly and children.

So don't bother with qualifications, there are no jobs anyway - what is the answer then? Pay everyone benefits. 10 million today, 25 million people in 10 years - what kind of society does that look like?

One problem with hiring disabled people of any form is that there is a cruel catch 22 when being recruited.

Option 1. Declare a disability on an application and the application is quickly filed in Easte under a spurious reason

Option 2. Don't declare the disability and declare to an employer afterwards and in my experience the employer has seemed this a major break of trust and completely unprofessional in that it is tantamount to lying. Performance management out quickly ensues.

Jobs have person specs and often the spec lists criteria which disabled people can't match so what should happen? Do we alter person specs to remove the like of excellent interpersonal skills to not bias against neurodiverse people, remove numeracy as a criteria to allow people with severe dyscalcia into the work force? etc.

Sometimes getting disabled people into the work force is tantamount to cruelty and is a bully's charter.

Yes, me too. I dread to think what would’ve happened to me without work which was the string between me and wider society. Probably spent a lot of time in bed as my MH got worse, with no way back.

I do not have huge faith the system for assessing for pip and think it absolutely needs changing. I have sat in many assessments and while some assessors are empathetic some seem to want to catch people out. I have also supported people I work with with appeals its been very clearly documented that they have long term conditions and ongoing symptoms that’s stops them from working but this has been overlooked

it needs to work better so those applying who need it get the higher rates, those applying who need it for the rest of their lives do not have to go through the stressful reviews every few years and those that need it short term have support in returning to some form of work which for many the support is realy needed

but we can not ignore the huge rise in the last few years of people applying and particularly young people

This!
I am so sorry for conscientious, honest and hardworking young people today who are the ones paying the tax burden to support an ever growing dependency culture.

That is a truly frightening thought.