To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

How? I didnt see anything in the green paper about ND and employment. It is a real issue.

MH issues are up for reassessment in terms of benefits etc
Its an area Labour have always said is unsustainable.

Lets all look forward to a more constructive and happy future for more people.

ND is not MH.

Not really.
It’s very easy to get 4pts in several areas when you’re too depressed to get out of bed, bathe, eat, etc.

The people most affected will be the physically disabled that are barely managing.

your writing is good enough though.

Can you clean? do gardening? sew? do delivery? just something?

Yes my writing is good but I have a lot of help with my day to day things. I can't clean or garden. I have help with both those things. I have help with life admin.
I do like to sew. I do crafts to pass the time.

I am not allowed to drive.

So you can build a great sewing business - go to S&B board and see how many of us are struggling to find well fitting cloths. You can offer service of fitting ready made ones or sew them from scratch. Taking up trousers is about £25 where I am and doesn't take more than 30min.

Crafts - being ND assume you can't run any classes for kids? or adults for that matter?

I'm seeing this constantly - I can't do X, Y, Z etc. Try to think what you can do.

Edited to add:
I do crafts to pass the time.
This is yet another issue with benefits - no purpose. You don't live your life, you pass the time. If need pushes you to achieve something you'll be proud and feel better about yourself.

There was a woman on BBC news with autism who was full-time employed and said she used her PIP to pay bills, not on things that would help her autism. I don’t think she needs PIP at all. The system obviously needs massive reform, it’s billions of pounds a year and growing.

I can't sew clothing. I have tried. I make little toys. But you need to do CE checks for toys. Have a look at how much that costs. I am not making excuses. It is not doable. There are also new rules about selling to the EU. No one makes any money from crafts anymore.

I can't run classes as I would get overwhelmed and lash out. I go to support groups and need someone to go with me for that very reason. I also can't deal with kids at all. I don't understand them.

A lot of people use PIP to pay bills as ESA/UC is not enough.

I saw your edit. I do live my life. Please don't tell me that I dont.
I have been pushed to work before and I ended up in hospital under section.

I suffer from mh difficulties and I take anti-depressants and I’ve been to therapy numerous times. I also make sure to exercise frequently as that helps how I feel. I work full-time and I always have, despite maybe a period of 3 weeks off at one point. Yes, it’s hard… I have good and bad days, but I still maintain that working has benefitted me greatly financially, mentally and socially. It gives me routine, structure, purpose and I feel a part of society.

I feel many people are sensationalising these cuts and completely catastrophising. These cuts are needed as we simply cannot continue to fund so many people out of work. Welfare should only go to those most in need - those whose illness or disability is so severe, they're unable to function. I am sorry to say it but I also resent people who abuse the system when I work so hard despite my own difficulties.

Do you have a job, and what is it? Are your employers respectful of your difficulties?

I am the same, although have managed to wean myself off anti-depressants but still wake up most mornings with absolute dread and not wanting to face the day. I get on with it though and work full time and it gives me a sense of purpose but it's not easy to get through the week. I fantasize about retiring after 40 years of working but that is a few years off. Any jobs I have had have been a source of huge stress to me at times.
I absolutely agree that changes have to be made and criteria made stricter but the problem I see from the clients I work with at my job is that most have not worked for 20-30 years. Low level alcohol dependency, anxiety, depression, have often cared for a parent then when they no longer are a carer because the parent dies , they start claiming for disability benefits based on mental health etc. they mostly live in HA or LA properties in run down areas where all their mates are doing the same, where all rent is paid, they get PIP and ESA and severe disability premiums getting sometimes £1400+ a month to live off with all rent paid and manage quite nicely on it. This has been allowed to go on for years and they are mostly unemployable. I think if they want to break the cycle they are going to have to really concentrate on the young ones and helping them into work because there's a lot who will never work again.

So how do the people doing the same full time job as this women with no PIP support pay their bills?

PIP and ESA is for disabilities.

But she is not using them to support her disabilities if she is paying her rent with them so how is that fair to her colleague doing the same job and paying tax to support the payment of the claimants benefits.

it is not fair to able bodied low paid workers and that is why people are so upset with the current system, leading to more people ‘gaming’ the system.

if a claimant needs to use those monies to pay for a carer to get them into work that is different. But that is not what the claimant has stated she uses her benefits for.

Same. I think sitting at home doing nothing would make it 10 times worse.

Both my DH and I have MH challenges - he takes daily medication and I try and manage holistically (mine are menopause enhanced).
There are certainly days when we don’t want to go to work, but once there the structure of the working day is beneficial to alleviating the symptoms. He did not claim PIP as he could (just about) manage a working day without it / saw it as something that people with more significant challenges than us should have.
I guess not everyone thinks like us - and maybe we have been foolish in not submitting a claim 30 years ago, when no doubt PIP or the equivalent would have been awarded to DH without question. He has quite severe symptoms at times.

i truly believe that there should be a government funded safety net when people cannot work and do understand that MH challenges are not the same for everyone but the current system is financially unsustainable and therefore something has to change.

Unfortunately there will be some people who will lose out going forward. I just hope they are the ones who don’t need the money to actually get them into work.

Why are you so convinced everyone is "sitting at home doing nothing"? People are trying to cope with their disability/MH isssue. Some like me even tried to recover whilst on benefits!

The point is that employers want you to function normally a specific amount, usually at specific times (certainly in the low paid jobs like retail that realistically are what is available to these people). Stuff at home is much more flexible - no one fires you if you're weeping through the washing up or only manage to go to the supermarket at 8pm. You can also do things that are helpful for your mental health rather than repeatedly trying and failing at jobs and being fired (or not even able to get a job, living in dire poverty and thus situations that worsen mental health).

I agree people need support to recover, at least the sort of people who will just spiral rather than gradually find their way (mind you even though I found my way, it would have been a hell of a lot quicker if I'd been able to access therapy from the NHS - I had a little private therapy but was seen as too high risk to continue without NHS backup!). But telling people they should be getting a job isn't support to recover - going back to work is the end result, not the first step!

I studied for a degree with the Open University whilst on disability benefits. I know someone who's severely physically disabled who spent years and years training for a career they could manage, whilst claiming benefits. Telling either of us we should just get a job (as clearly capable of study) wouldn't have made us suddenly start working. The person I know would likely have remained unemployed for the rest of their life, I likely would have ended up dead through suicide (no hope of recovery, homeless as couldn't cope in HMOs so needed the funding for my own cheap flat). We both needed the time to recover and/or train.

Take my degree as an example - could I have been employed, as I could study? Sure, if I could be given a job with complete flexibility on hours, working from home, with delays on deadlines if I was particularly unwell. But I have never come across a job like that, especially one that doesn't need experience and qualifications (that take years). People need time and support to recover sufficiently and find suitable work. This time isn't by default "sitting at home".

Some peoole have depression so bad they cant lift their head off the pillow ,as i ssid when i was a mental health nurse i have known people to be in a catatonic state when suffering a major depressive episode ,some peope who were treatment resistive only responded to a course of ECT( this is rare though these days ) its not a case of just wanting to sit at home doing nothing for some people.

Perhaps we should consider what on earth is happening to children when so many are being assessed and diagnosed with all these behavioural problems. Is it fast food? Lack of exercise? Too much screen time? It’s like a tidal wave of mental health problems. On the other hand, once it’s realised there are benefits to be received upon confirmation of these illnesses people are forming a queue to get their kid diagnosed. I know of a boy of about 15 who hasn’t attended school for months. The mother is waiting to get him assessed. Well 15 is an awkward age. It could just be that? No. A label would be better

This does seem to be the best way forward. It would definitely incentivise employers who are struggling with the increasing costs of hiring people.

When I left school my employer was seriously physically disabled and was an inspiration. There were days that he couldn't make it into the office, but although this was pre-internet, he managed using a telephone and getting people to go to him to take or collect stuff. Nowadays he would have no problems at all.

I have a friend with both physical and MH issues that unfortunately works in a trade requiring his presence to do the job. Luckily he has a very understanding employer that accepts he may only attend three days a week and has higher than average days off. He is only paid when he works, but he enjoys the job and his MH would be much worse without it. It would be great if employers were incentivised to help people like this.

The other way to get work is through self-employment. We are now very much in the 'gig economy' and working for one company is not always the solution. I have significant physical and mental health issues but I am self-employed, working from home using my computer. In our modern world this is a really good option for lots of people.

We need to train up our young people to work in jobs that can be done from anywhere. We need to teach them important life skills, financial management and small business skills rather than the same academic curriculum that has been around for centuries. Resilience starts at home and in the classroom at a young age.

Good response. I hear how you feel - I’m exactly the same and I’m sorry you experience it too.

You make really good points. I think the gov ought to focus on back to work schemes. The people you mention are not unemployable in my eyes, that’s an attitude. Especially if they’re caring or have cared, that requires skills + qualities. They most certainly could do training or part time work. It’s absolutely not ok that they get £1400 a month to live on, that’s almost the majority of my salary and I have to work for it an endure such difficulty, tiredness and affected mood as a result. They need support, schemes, and a bit of tough love in my humble opinion.

I had a client at work with a daughter aged 21 who lived with her. Never had a job and not in training or further study. “NEET.” Mum said she suffered from anxiety and wasn’t able to get a job or anything. Just stayed in her bedroom, didn’t even clean or help mum. Mum felt at a loss and would seek support from me about it. I didn’t really know what to say to her. In some ways, I felt mum was enabling her. How can we have young people living like this? Her mum would give her an allowance each month too. No incentive to work. What happens when mum retires or sadly passes away?! It’s completely maddening and unacceptable. Also the daughter refused help, or therapy.

I do agree that there needs to be a focus on the young to break the cycle.

Refusing help or treatment is definitely a tricky thing. It really should be incentivised. It's often harder for carers of those who refuse treatment because they're left unsupported by professionals to pick up the pieces. That's a whole other issue though, especially if those people are then refused PIP, their carers wouldn't then be eligible for carers allowance when it might be needed more than ever.