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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

504 replies

Byjimminy · 18/03/2025 20:19

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

Sorry, Wes – my A&E is full of people having a mental health crisis

The health secretary is wrong to suggest that doctors are overdiagnosing patients with psychiatric conditions – it’s just not in our interest to reach for the prescription pad and sign them off work, says Dr Ammad Butt

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ChocolatesAndRainbows · 21/03/2025 17:42

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 16:04

You sound like you don't like her much.
You see her highlights. You don't see behind the scenes.

I like her very much. She's a victim of a system that encourages lack of achievement

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 17:44

ChocolatesAndRainbows · 21/03/2025 17:42

I like her very much. She's a victim of a system that encourages lack of achievement

If she is ND and has MH issues then the fact she can get to her fan events is an achievement in itself. Surely that should be celebrated? Work might come along at some point, but she will need support in that. Just cutting off her money wont make her suddenly able to work.

Byjimminy · 21/03/2025 18:56

As with most disabling conditions, there are two, well respected, leading national mental health charities, Mind and Rethink, who campaign and raise awareness of their areas of speciality, and have done so for decades. They know their stuff.

Both have spoken out against the current announcements:

Dr Sarah Hughes, Chief Executive of Mind, said:

"Mental health problems are not a choice - but it is a political choice to make it harder for people to access the support they need to live with dignity and independence. These reforms will only serve to deepen the nation’s mental health crisis.

"While the increased investment in employment support will go some way in helping the many people with mental health problems who can and want to work, this risks being undermined by a short-sighted approach - slashing people’s benefits at the same time.

"Benefits like Personal Independence Payment are a lifeline, helping people with a mental health problem to enter and remain in work. Without this support, people risk being plunged in poverty and seeing a deterioration in their health, which will ultimately lead to more people falling into unemployment.

"We have an opportunity to truly transform people’s experiences of employment. This requires having a benefits system that provides a robust safety net that truly supports people into good, sustainable work, while also supporting those who are simply not well enough to work. Today’s announcement does the opposite and we urge the Government to rethink these plans."
https://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaigns/news/mind-reacts-to-uk-government-green-paper-on-benefit-reform/

Mark Winstanley, Chief Executive of Rethink Mental Illness, said:

“Amid the whirlwind of speculation leading up to this announcement, people experiencing severe mental illness have grown increasingly anxious and despairing. We do agree with the government's assessment that the social security system is broken, because for too long people living with mental illness have come to serious harm and even lost their lives due to the failures and punitive approach of the Department for Work and Pensions, and we are incredibly concerned that these reforms could trigger hardship and suffering for many. Our own research has found that people already face an uphill battle to access benefits such as Personal Independence Payments (PIP), with claims often rejected because assessors do not adequately take account of mental illness. Removing financial support without a clear plan to address the drivers of mental illness and bring down lengthy waiting lists for treatment will not boost the number of people in work, but instead risk deepening the mental health crisis facing the nation.

“We recognise the scale of the challenge for the government as an increasing number of people are not working due to ill-health. There were some welcome measures in today’s announcement, such as providing a guarantee that people will not face a PIP award review or WCA reassessment if attempts to return to work prove unsuccessful, alongside the significant investment of £1 billion in employment support. That there will be a renewed focus on safeguarding within the DWP is also welcome, although we are uncertain how the government squares this with the potentially harmful changes to PIP it plans to introduce. Its promise to protect the most vulnerable rings hollow, especially given that people living with severe mental illness might not factor into the government's definition of this.

“Though we recognise these changes will not be immediate, the people we support face an even more uncertain future which will only compound their distress and make life even harder.”
https://www.rethink.org/news-and-stories/media-centre/2025/03/we-respond-to-the-governments-announcement-on-welfare-reform/

We respond to the government's announcement on welfare reform

National mental health charity: information, services & a strong voice for everyone affected by mental illness - challenging attitudes and changing lives.

https://www.rethink.org/news-and-stories/media-centre/2025/03/we-respond-to-the-governments-announcement-on-welfare-reform

OP posts:
nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 19:09

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 17:44

If she is ND and has MH issues then the fact she can get to her fan events is an achievement in itself. Surely that should be celebrated? Work might come along at some point, but she will need support in that. Just cutting off her money wont make her suddenly able to work.

Gosh... it's exactly this attitude which created this horrendous system. If work doesn't come within a year it never does.
How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime? Again, welfare only (not state pensions, NHS, educations, etc, only benefits bill) costs average taxpayer £1930 this year. It's projected to rise to £3k pa by 2029. Are you happy to give her £150k of your money in your working years?

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 19:18

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 19:09

Gosh... it's exactly this attitude which created this horrendous system. If work doesn't come within a year it never does.
How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime? Again, welfare only (not state pensions, NHS, educations, etc, only benefits bill) costs average taxpayer £1930 this year. It's projected to rise to £3k pa by 2029. Are you happy to give her £150k of your money in your working years?

I think you have no understanding of ND issues.

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:18

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 19:09

Gosh... it's exactly this attitude which created this horrendous system. If work doesn't come within a year it never does.
How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime? Again, welfare only (not state pensions, NHS, educations, etc, only benefits bill) costs average taxpayer £1930 this year. It's projected to rise to £3k pa by 2029. Are you happy to give her £150k of your money in your working years?

Absolutely
The system isn’t working
Labour are dealing with it …..and it’s about time !

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:39

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 19:09

Gosh... it's exactly this attitude which created this horrendous system. If work doesn't come within a year it never does.
How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime? Again, welfare only (not state pensions, NHS, educations, etc, only benefits bill) costs average taxpayer £1930 this year. It's projected to rise to £3k pa by 2029. Are you happy to give her £150k of your money in your working years?

Yes, I am happy to support any disabled person who cannot work or who discriminatory employers refuse to hire.

You act like there is an alternative. What would you suggest?
After a year? Two? Do like Hitler and euthanise? Do like Stalin and starve to death? I know you wouldn’t approve of a work house because those cost taxpayer money..and it seems you think humans are only worthy of life if they’re paying taxes.

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:44

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:39

Yes, I am happy to support any disabled person who cannot work or who discriminatory employers refuse to hire.

You act like there is an alternative. What would you suggest?
After a year? Two? Do like Hitler and euthanise? Do like Stalin and starve to death? I know you wouldn’t approve of a work house because those cost taxpayer money..and it seems you think humans are only worthy of life if they’re paying taxes.

Mentioning Hitler
Stalin
Euthanasia doesn’t help here
Its just inflammatory

The particular person mentioned by @ChocolatesAndRainbows is capable of getting out an about for pre arranged events they chose to attend
Nows the time for this particular person to work towards those pre arranged events to be the workplace.
Any one that can,should.

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 21:45

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:44

Mentioning Hitler
Stalin
Euthanasia doesn’t help here
Its just inflammatory

The particular person mentioned by @ChocolatesAndRainbows is capable of getting out an about for pre arranged events they chose to attend
Nows the time for this particular person to work towards those pre arranged events to be the workplace.
Any one that can,should.

Edited

A pre arranged event for fun is totally different to work.

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 21:47

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 19:18

I think you have no understanding of ND issues.

oh irony... Both me and my DC are ND. Professionally diagnosed. Yes, I struggled all my life, really badly, with office environment, noise, horrendous commute, etc. Greet my teeth and go. And yes, I don't want to pay for people who don't make the same effort. I do want to pay for those who truly can't - but it's really minority of them, not 27% of working age population.

I'm all for supporting disabled people, those who are truly unable to work. There issue we're talking about are those ones who can do some work, but chose not to. And there are gazillion of examples here on MN. Significant proportion of society has been conditioned to pull everything to get benefits instead of working.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:47

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:44

Mentioning Hitler
Stalin
Euthanasia doesn’t help here
Its just inflammatory

The particular person mentioned by @ChocolatesAndRainbows is capable of getting out an about for pre arranged events they chose to attend
Nows the time for this particular person to work towards those pre arranged events to be the workplace.
Any one that can,should.

Edited

It is not any more inflammatory than putting and end date beyond which a disabled person is left with zero support:
“How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime?”

Posters need to realise the ramifications of what they espouse.

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:51

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 21:45

A pre arranged event for fun is totally different to work.

I’m all too aware of that. 🤣
As I’m guessing are most people

Why do you think holidays are so popular

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:52

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 21:47

oh irony... Both me and my DC are ND. Professionally diagnosed. Yes, I struggled all my life, really badly, with office environment, noise, horrendous commute, etc. Greet my teeth and go. And yes, I don't want to pay for people who don't make the same effort. I do want to pay for those who truly can't - but it's really minority of them, not 27% of working age population.

I'm all for supporting disabled people, those who are truly unable to work. There issue we're talking about are those ones who can do some work, but chose not to. And there are gazillion of examples here on MN. Significant proportion of society has been conditioned to pull everything to get benefits instead of working.

Edited

A “significant portion of society” would mean that most doctors signing forms saying certain disabled people are not fit for work and cannot work are either lying or incompetent. I know this isn’t true.

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:56

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:52

A “significant portion of society” would mean that most doctors signing forms saying certain disabled people are not fit for work and cannot work are either lying or incompetent. I know this isn’t true.

Doctors have to ask questions of their clients
they then write the answers down that they are told
its not for them to question and not for them to request proof or seek it.

Doctors only have proof if there is clear medical evidence…..there more than often isn’t. In fact 84% of approved PIP applications do not have sufficient proof!

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:04

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 21:47

It is not any more inflammatory than putting and end date beyond which a disabled person is left with zero support:
“How long do we need to pay for her? year? two? 70 years for her entire lifetime?”

Posters need to realise the ramifications of what they espouse.

If they are disabled and unable to work they will still get their benefits.
Labour are not taking that away

I do think your examples of alternatives are far more inflammatory than @nearlylovemyusername s . Simply because nearlylove is seeing the reality of the cost to the country which given the predicted rise in the future is not sustainable. Being kind, and letting it pass isn’t going to get the benefits and support to those who really are in need.
We must focus on supporting those that absolutely cannot work first and foremost

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 22:04

nearlylovemyusername · 21/03/2025 21:47

oh irony... Both me and my DC are ND. Professionally diagnosed. Yes, I struggled all my life, really badly, with office environment, noise, horrendous commute, etc. Greet my teeth and go. And yes, I don't want to pay for people who don't make the same effort. I do want to pay for those who truly can't - but it's really minority of them, not 27% of working age population.

I'm all for supporting disabled people, those who are truly unable to work. There issue we're talking about are those ones who can do some work, but chose not to. And there are gazillion of examples here on MN. Significant proportion of society has been conditioned to pull everything to get benefits instead of working.

Edited

You do realise that everyone with an ND issue is totally different to another?
I am autistic and my boyfriend is too. He is able to work. He went to uni. He is very sociable and loves everyone. I am the opposite. I have GSCEs and a very old and obsolete qualification after that. My boyfriend can absorb information like a sponge. I cant even manage a gov funded level 2 course.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 22:06

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 21:56

Doctors have to ask questions of their clients
they then write the answers down that they are told
its not for them to question and not for them to request proof or seek it.

Doctors only have proof if there is clear medical evidence…..there more than often isn’t. In fact 84% of approved PIP applications do not have sufficient proof!

Ha ha ha ha ha, you honestly believe that doctors just “write down what they are told?!”

Your PIP “84% don’t have sufficient proof” is patently false.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 22:09

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:04

If they are disabled and unable to work they will still get their benefits.
Labour are not taking that away

I do think your examples of alternatives are far more inflammatory than @nearlylovemyusername s . Simply because nearlylove is seeing the reality of the cost to the country which given the predicted rise in the future is not sustainable. Being kind, and letting it pass isn’t going to get the benefits and support to those who really are in need.
We must focus on supporting those that absolutely cannot work first and foremost

Nope, that’s not how the benefits reforms are being done. Labour is taking away benefits from those who cannot work by abolishing the fit for work assessment.

Actually, the level of disability and health benefits isn’t unsustainable. It’s no different than it has been the last 40yrs and is comparable to other countries.

ginsterloo · 21/03/2025 22:10

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 19:18

I think you have no understanding of ND issues.

It's estimated that 1 in 5 people are neuro diverse, obviously some can work and some cannot but there needs to be the help and guidance put in place to those who do not work and can work to enable them to enter employment, it just can't be a blanket policy for all. Otherwise in the next 15-20 years people not working will outnumber those who do work and benefits will be slashed across the board to pay for the increased number.
There are numerous posts on this thread on people with significant MH issues who have helped themselves, not necessarily to overcome it, but to put in place mechanisms to deal with a working day, this needs to be the norm not the exception for those able to work. Only the sufferers can build resilience but sometimes they need the tools to be able to do so (and to want to do so, which is something else)

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 22:12

ginsterloo · 21/03/2025 22:10

It's estimated that 1 in 5 people are neuro diverse, obviously some can work and some cannot but there needs to be the help and guidance put in place to those who do not work and can work to enable them to enter employment, it just can't be a blanket policy for all. Otherwise in the next 15-20 years people not working will outnumber those who do work and benefits will be slashed across the board to pay for the increased number.
There are numerous posts on this thread on people with significant MH issues who have helped themselves, not necessarily to overcome it, but to put in place mechanisms to deal with a working day, this needs to be the norm not the exception for those able to work. Only the sufferers can build resilience but sometimes they need the tools to be able to do so (and to want to do so, which is something else)

Only 1 in 3 people with autism work. Many of us want to, but most workplaces are trying to fit us square pegs into a round hole.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 22:15

There are numerous posts on this thread on people with significant MH issues who have helped themselves,..

That’s an oxymoron if I ever saw one, if you can help yourself out of MH issues, then you only had a very mild case of poor MH issues that fell below the threshold of a diagnosable MH disorder.

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:18

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 22:06

Ha ha ha ha ha, you honestly believe that doctors just “write down what they are told?!”

Your PIP “84% don’t have sufficient proof” is patently false.

That’s exactly what doctors do, they have no choice.
It’s not for them to question what a patient feels, not for them to tell them they are not in pain etc. They absolutely have no right.

The 84% was a proven stat on another MN thread a while ago.
Please don’t accuse MNs of lies

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:27

LoremIpsumCici · 21/03/2025 22:09

Nope, that’s not how the benefits reforms are being done. Labour is taking away benefits from those who cannot work by abolishing the fit for work assessment.

Actually, the level of disability and health benefits isn’t unsustainable. It’s no different than it has been the last 40yrs and is comparable to other countries.

Edited

You really need to look at the predicted figures.
Then maybe all the other areas that are failing in this country

People are taking the hit and as each ‘type’ is attacked by Labour there’s stuff in the news and horror threads on MN
So far there’s been
Tax on Education…….not much MN support at all !!
IHT on farmers…….ditto
Businesses re ni increase…….ditto
Loss of the Winter fuel Allowance for pensioners……ditto!!

Now welfare benefits

Next up, who knows
What we do know is that the nhs, education, social housing, defence etc. are all severely underfunded and we are all paying for it in one way or another.

Its definitely Time for a change

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:28

WeylandYutani · 21/03/2025 22:12

Only 1 in 3 people with autism work. Many of us want to, but most workplaces are trying to fit us square pegs into a round hole.

That’s currently
Im guessing that’s an area Labour want and need to tackle

DontWheeshtMe · 21/03/2025 22:32

Anyway
We’re clearly banging our heads against a wall here……Again.
It’s happening
so time to plan for the future.
Hopefully a better and more fulfilling one for most