To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

FFS its difficult to believe people are being this obtuse.

The percentage of the population who have a disability is not the percentage of people who are claiming disability benefits. Stop misusing statistics to make an ideological point.

24% of the population have a disability.
14.5% of the population claim a benefit.

Neither have i
I know my LA have a.register of disabled children but its a voluntry thing and essentially its used to try and plan whst extea services the LA might need to fund.

And this is the massive problem some of the world is facing. Its not just working age 'disabled'* it's the very elderly especially if needing high care inputs.
I have a friend with a very disabled teen (non verbal (violent) autism, multiple other health problems) needing 24 hour waking care and 1 to 2 care outside the home. It's not even (just) about the money, who exactly is going to provide all this care her kid needs ? The future looks very bleak .

I * disabled earlier because I think it is used too freely today. To me is describes something permanent and I don't think it helps to describe people with depression/anxiety as disabled.

I remember earlier last year.All the screaming from all quarters get the tories out for this sake of disabled people. What the tories have done to disabled people is disgusting etc etc x 10000 more hyperbolic statements.

Now you ve all got what you wanted with labour, and they ve done what even the tories didn't dare do. Hope you're all satisfied. Starmer is more tory than thatcher.

Just goes to show you cannot depend on any government to pay you for what you need or want. And to be honest, when could anyone ever depend on them no matter what party's been in power.

Over reliance on the state is a dangerous thing.Because you never know when the rug is going to be pulled out from under your feet.

At the extreme end of Anxiety and Depression it can be disabling
When i was a mental health there were some people for whom treatment didnt work or even extreme treatment such a as ECT only worked for s period of time .obviously these cases are quite rare but they exist.

I have asked this on other threads but what is the right amount of disability?

I think it's fine to discuss what level of disability requires financial support from the tax payer and how to deliver that.

But I don't see how we can decide that only 10% are allowed to be disabled or rising disability just isnt sustaintable. It is what it is. Presumably if a very severe virus swept through we could all be disabled next year.

But you acknowledge that cases like that are rare.

That's the point being made. It doesn't help to describe anxiety and depression in general as disabilities. Focusing on what they can't do rather than what they can do is patronizing. Why is it anathema to try and support an anxious or depressed person to seek help and treatment with a future return to work once they're able?

Recovery should be the goal. The long term goal shouldn't be benefits, out of work and labeling them as disabled.

Do you really think it's in their best interests when they re not at the extremely rare end of the spectrum to class as disabled and and allow them to opt out. That will only make things worse unless they re on the extremely rare end of the spectrum.

Yes and if we were all disabled and nobody could work, we would all die.

PIP was designed to help with the additional costs caused by having a functional disability.

And now the main conditions being claimed for at the top of the list are psychiatric or neurodevelopmental with many people seeing it as additional income rather than to fund extra costs caused by a disability.

And that needs to change.

I never said thst i waa resoonding to a pp who said anxiety and depression shouldnt be classsd as disabillities i was pointing out that both conditions can be very disabling
But slso if you read my previous posts i have repeatedly pointed out that hsving a disabillity doesnt automatically qualify anyone for disability benfits ,its how the disability impacts a person.

Yes, if nobody could work.

But since plenty of disabled people do work without claiming benefits it could also be fine..

Which is why quoting the number of disabled rather than the number needing financial support isn't quite right.

It not patronising to describe these things as disabilities. Done in the right way it can be empowering. It acknowledges their struggle. It helped me so much to be acknowledged (mental health and eventually discovered to be autistic. Now "just" autistic.)

Agreed the long term goal should be recovery where possible. But this takes time, during which people need to be supported by benefits.

I'm still classed as disabled, and always will be. I do need to make sure I do suitable work, and/or have reasonable adjustments at work. I was supported by benefits for longer than necessary, only because I couldn't access suitable treatment.

A quarter of the population with a disability sounds reasonable when you consider the whole population, including many elderly people. And all the disabled people who's disability isn't severe enough to stop them working.

Just goes to show you cannot depend on any government to pay you for what you need or want. And to be honest, when could anyone ever depend on them no matter what party's been in power.

It’s not the government paying you, it’s tax payers paying for you and there should be some controls around that. The current system is unsustainable and while I do have concerns about some of the proposals, the system does need to be reviewed.

Both of which are a spectrum
Mental illness can range from someone with mild anxiety to acute treatment resistive psychosis
Neuro Diversity is a minefield but on one end there might be somone who is very academic ,independent who copes very well with their challenges
On the other end there are people like my son non verbal, very limited understsnding of the world around them will never be independent will always need 1: 1 care etc.

My partner is autistic. He's had breakdowns over the years, after university etc

He struggles with concurrent issues such as OCD

He wouldnt want to be called disabled and wouldn't be empowered by that label.

He works has 2 degrees and is a fully functioning member of society despite all he's had to overcome.

It all comes down to whether you want to focus on what you can't do or what you can.

Exactly the spectrum is vast. Your son quite rightly needs life long 1:1 care and support.

The other end of the spectrum is those feeling empowered by a disability label to acknowledge their struggles. That says it all really.

It does rather take away from those who need the most help and support.

But again having a diagnosis doesnt automtically qualify a person for disabilty benefits.

No it doesn't.

But when many assessments are paper based and completed by assessors who are most likely not experts in those conditions, they have to assume people are being truthful when they may not be. Or may be exaggerating.

And that's without the numerous websites which tell you what to say to score points on a PIP assessment. And the companies you can pay to fill it in for you.

Are they claiming PIP though? Having a disability does not mean someone claims benefits.
What are the figures for DLA/PIP?

What the tories have done to disabled people is disgusting etc etc x 10000 more hyperbolic statements.

Yet the only person using hyperbole here is you.

Now you ve all got what you wanted with labour, and they ve done what even the tories didn't dare do. Hope you're all satisfied. Starmer is more tory than thatcher.

Look up what the tories were planning for disability benefits - their only complaint about the proposals is that they don't go far enough.

And the companies you can pay to fill it in for you.

Which companies?

And that's without the numerous websites which tell you what to say to score points on a PIP assessment.

All of which is freely available information to anyone who looks.

Labour and opposition parties would have likely opposed the same when not in power.

Ironically they’ll get more cuts through, the back benches will be a bit of a rebellion but likely not enough.

I suppose some will still vote for them when they’re impacted, which they’re likely relying on. Overall they can do on welfare what others find politically harder.

https://booking.pipps.co.uk/?_gl=1%2A14xrnjy%2A_ga%2AMTY0OTcxNDg0MS4xNzQzNTg0OTc0%2A_ga_9HN2BEHDQ2%2AMTc0MzU4NzAwNS4yLjAuMTc0MzU4NzAwNS4wLjAuMA..

https://agetrust.co.uk/pip-claims-2025/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwwLO_BhB2EiwAx2e-3-gwXAQUkldjGw4bddF0o0qpzG9EvJSGimi0rEs0dHiTpKtKeOSeuRoC7pUQAvD_BwE

There's a couple.

I think it needs to be tightened. Without cuts, where would all this extra funding come from? Tax the people already struggling? Tax the higher earners more, ignoring the fact they're already paying massive amounts of tax into a failing NHS and benefits system?

PIP funds need to be protected, not depleted. They should go to people who genuinely NEED the funding, such as those with serious medical conditions that prevent them earning a full salary. Or people who need PIP to help them re-join the workplace and stay employed, eg paying for mobility taxis or adapted cars to get to work.

MH conditions and vague conditions like CFS are difficult to diagnose, respond unpredictably to treatment, yet many sufferers actually benefit from a full-time job. It gives a sense of purpose, focus, social interaction, keeps our minds and bodies from atrophying through lack of use. The cuts will force employers to be more tolerant and open minded about disabilities, and hopefully more flexible about working hours, adapting roles, allowing regular breaks and work from home options.

Very few medical conditions mean a person cannot work at all, in any field.

You are aware that pip is for the extra costs of having a disability and you can claim whether you work or not ?