To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

Not everyone on UC rents. Some people own their home or lives in housing provided by family.
Not everyone has kids.
It varies on how much council tax you pay. I still have to pay 20% of mine
Certain health conditions exempts people from prescription charges. And everyone can pay £10 for a prepayment certificate.
Eye tests are not much anyway and not everyone needs glasses.

If your only income is £800 then you can't really exist without the "benefits" of being on benefits. No one in a full time job is on £800 so it is hardly a level playing field to begin with. Plus the person on UC is sick/disabled and has that to deal with. And the stigma of it.

Lots of jobs don’t have uniforms.
Most people don’t live within walking distance of a job

Maybe you should have planned things better then 😉

I’m not talking about me.
None of this discussion has anything to do with me at all 🙃

If none if it is going to affect you then why post at all?
Some of us are terrified by the proposals.

I'm a bit confused about the last few posts. Are posters saying that if they want to be financially better off working than on benefits then workers should make sure they have a job that's walking distance and has a uniform?

No. The person quoting me said that people who work have extra costs like commuting and work clothing. I said that is not true for everyone.
The same person also does not seem to acknowledge how much harder commuting via public transport is when you are a wheelchair user.

Comparing minimum wage full time work with benefits noted here

Here’s a calc
I did for fun 🤣🤣

Minimum wage 35 hours/wk take home pay = £1626 pcm ( Gross £22222/yr )
Rent in a shared house £700 pcm ( my kids pay £670 in multiple occupancy ). I’ve taken £700 as it’s at the lowest rent you can get in a suburb of London ie Watford but still has lots of jobs and is very commutable.

So £1626 - £700 = £926 left after rent pcm

In terms of UC based on an online calculator you can get £32 pcm

So £926 + £32 = £958 pcm to live on if you work full time.
Then all your bills and share of council tax to pay.

( nb council tax of £3000 / 3 people = £1000 per person per year or £83 pcm.
£958 - £83 = £875 left ).

So it’s quite clear at the moment even without kids work isn’t paying if one compares your figure @WeylandYutani of £800 for someone on benefits

This country is definitely ready for a change to all this nonsense

Outgoings vary a ton depending on circumstance, kids, housing, location and stuff like that.
I get just £800pm. On no planet am I better off than someone working. Someone in a min wage job takes home twice what I do. So it is daft to say I am somehow better off.
I still have to pay bills (my utilities are the same rate as anyone elses). I don't get cheaper food or toiletries. I still have to clean and maintain my home.

Because the cost affects the entire country

The cost effects the countries kids and their education
The nhs and every sick person here
Our extortionate council tax bills
Our ability to defend ourselves of the global stage

Im not so selfious to only care about what affects me. I assume a lot of interested parties are so because they care for the country as a whole. It’s much bigger than me

I'm also confused because no-one is saying on this thread that benefits should be a way of life for someone who can work 🤷‍♀️. I'm certainly better off working full-time so I do because I can, when my health allows. I love my job! PIP isn't related to whether you work or not in anycase, it's in recognition that life is more expensive and harder when you're disabled - doesn't really matter where you live. Something that I think many just don't get or understand unless you've experienced it. A bit like being a parent 🙂

Regardless, it's the process by which we determine whether someone is eligible for extra support due to disability, whether in or out of work that's the main issue.

I agree with the notion that if you work you should get a decent chunk more than benefits pay.

Having said that, being disabled and trying to get stuff done must be exhausting. I have a toddler in nursery 3 days a week. One day she’s grandparents and I take Wednesday off work to be with her. So on that day we have to get all of the life admin done. Just a straightforward thing like taking a parcel to the post office is way harder if you have a 3 year old and their bike and their frequent tantrums. And food shopping with a three year old and tantrums is much harder too. And I imagine that’s what being disabled is like. Trying to get things done, knowing it should be doable in theory, but my goodness it’s so much harder and more exhausting than it should be.

You did just see the take home pay for someone working 35 hours / week on minimum wage
I just posted it.
You've tagged it.
and that’s before they’ve bought clothes or paid for a bus to get to work.

Work isn’t paying at the moment. That’s why Labour is changing things.
If there wasn’t a problem there wouldn’t need to be changes

You forget Weyland you can get your rent paid ( if you live in a property type as required so for a single person [ as my example] that’s a single room in a shared house )
Someone working on min wage doesn’t get their rent paid. I checked.
All your other bills also have to be met by someone working although you will get a lot of free stuff like prescriptions and money off council tax etc etc etc

At the moment
A person on min wage is not better off.

Agree.

Working should pay considerably more than benefits.
There should be really no comparison

I think the problem is people are lumping PIP in with out of work benefits. So someone with a disability who works and in receipt of PIP is always going to be better off than the person in the same job/hours without it.

Many people on UC do work, and get their rent paid. I think it is something like 40% of UC claimants are in work.
Living on min wage is not doable now hence why they get top ups. Some people in work get topped up more in UC than what I get altogether.

they might get more in money but being disabled can be expensive and many are still out of pocket despite getting PIP.
But we should not be comparing someone who is fit to work and in a job with someone who is not fit to work and is on benefits. Or someone who works and claims PIP. They are not the same at all.

Yes fair point. "Better off" were the wrong words to use. Greater turnover might have been better, but agree completely the net gains and how these are measured are incomparable. I was trying to demonstrate that "being better off on benefits than in work" is too simplistic a viewpoint to be applied in a discussion around PIP.

the thing is, people just see it as a money thing. If someone is claiming UC for illness and PIP for disability, they are already at a disadvantage compared to someone who is not sick or disabled. And that is what they get the payments for.
Living with a disability is hard.

Absolutely!

which is why it grinds my gears to see people insisting that disabled get more than people who work.
Have the money then! But have the disability too.

I based my comparison on the figure you gave me of £800. Based on your figure there’s nothing in it.

I searched take home pay for someone on min wage ie after ni and tax. I did not allow anything for private pensions.
I then put the figures into the calculators for benefits and added the UC entitlement ( all for a single person on min wage full time )
Its all in my pp
The full comparison including allowances

Its simply not right that the two figures are so close.

I am not sure what point you are trying to prove. I get £800 in UC and that is my only income. I am not better off that anyone working and it is silly you think I am.

I get half of someone on min wage. How on earth can I be better off than someone who works?
Leave rent and kids out of it. Because not everyone has those costs.

People absolutely should not be on sickness benefits because “they’re better off on them” compared with working. That is not what sickness benefit is for! It is for sickness.

Right, so leave rent/kids/commuting costs/work clothes/free prescriptions/UC discounts etc out of it.

So what you are saying is that people on sickness benefits are worse off than NMW working people IF the working person lives rent free, has no kids, walks to work everyday and gets a free uniform?

Yes but, if you were working long hard stressful hours in a miserable boring job and all you were getting for all your effort was poverty wouldn't you be depressed and anxious? And what if looking around you your only realistic option for a job change is another gruelling job but people just like you are free of the work stress with zero financial disadvantage, this situation would make me sick as well.

I don't blame people for going off sick with depression/anxiety. It is just an outright lie that people are better off in work. In many, many cases they're not better off financially or emotionally .